/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>478704
>Ok, give me 1 legitimate, material, non moralistic or idealistic reason for why child labor should be banned?

Because when child labor was totally legal it led to a ton of really brutal exploitation.

The brain is most moldable in your youth when connections are still being formed. This makes it the perfect opportunity to teach basic technical skills that will be universally applicable like literacy and basic math up through introductory calculus and basic coding. These skills are required not only to be an operational citizen on a basic level but also to be the future guiding hand of the national worker's party. Particular emphasis should be given for government class in order to educate future workers of the political system they will someday inherit as well as the founding theory behind is implementation.

I agree practical skills should also be fostered but I think the place for that will be in voluntary pioneer summer programs where they can be done in a fun and safe environment.

I reject the premise that the working class is itself an identity.

>>478707
Children are imptessionable but not defective.

Again, the idea that children need exemption from the outisde world for the sake of innocemce is what reinforces their vulnerability.

>>478706
Irony is, theres alot more exploitation of kids but not always physical.

By treating kids as charity cases, they can be thrown around for PR stunts for career-hungry adults.

Also, it makes them more likely to be brainwashed into harmful ideologues.

Innocence is a libility, not a virtue.

>>478709
ok vaushuyghur anon

>>478711
Most children in the nineteenth cetury were helpers on the family farm or workshop. Prepubescent factory workers were mainly orphams or immigrants.


Child labor in itself isnt bad.
It is how you go about it.


Adults are pathologically incapable of viewing children as individual beings.
Most of our parental code of conduct is bases around the objectification of children as pets.

We live in an era of social justice where kids can safely work at fast food or grocery stores without greivous bodily harm.

In fact, with school shooters and shitty education, I would say its better to start your kids early in life.

>>478713
do you have children anon? have you ever been around a kid? they are profoundly retarded and will die without assistance in basic tasks. What you are talking about is like 14 year olds which I agree should be allowed to pursue part time. Education you point out correctly is a tool for indoctrination but a workers state should still use this to inform about class struggle

>>478713
>Child labor in itself isnt bad.

You're a creature.

>>478715
>do you have children anon? have you ever been around a kid? they are profoundly retarded and will die without assistance in basic tasks.


Soumds like misopedia.

If anything, you shoukd see the way second/third world counties rasie their kids and how pre-Victorain society did.

Kids are only dumb because we treat them like that.

You would be surprised at how adept kids can be.

I actually remember when my family ordered a shed to brought to the backyard.
And the guy who helped move it in had two kids, a son amd daughter, both 10 and 13, help put on the foundation blocks.

In alot of ethnic restaturamts, kids often help out woth the cash register or cooking.


Its only the urbanised white man whom looks down on his own young and treats them like shit and then wonder why their kids are falling behind in life.

>>478715
If kids are useless to you, then so are the elderly and disabled. Hell, even pets would be considered the same.

>>478716
>omg having kids work to earn their own toys is abusive!!!!!

>kids should be dumb little pets whom should be cringey and annoying bcuz thats how youth works!!!

This is why we have arrested developmemt

>A bunch of single misanthropes talk about raising kids.
Oh ho ho ho this thread is everything I thought it would be.

>>478718
I'm not a malthusian I'm just saying kids are dumb and need a lot of guidance to become functional adults

>>478721
helping your parents with projects, doing chores, learning about family trades through inclusion isn't what we're talking about you stupid faggot. You're talking about a 9-5 for a kid who could be learning mathematics, government, history, literature shit that will enrich the working class to a burger flipping retard.

>>478723
And again, this is because of how we raise our youth.

Go back to even ancient societies.
Kids were not just purely exuberant rugrats.
They were helpimg out in hunting, fishing, farming, etc.
Kids were also accomplices in assassinating or rescuing persons-of-interest.

Your chauvinsitic view of children is due to Victorian propaganda.

>>478724
Most of our burger flippers were former children whom are learned in math, geography, and science.

We are seeing an era where the average youth has spemt more time in school compared to their elders and yet they end up in mediocre unskilled low paying jobs.
They also dont know how to rizz up the opposite sex or basic home repairs or cooking.

These arent delinquents. Theyre whiz kids.

Irony is, the kids whom dropped out and worked are more likely to emd up in better paying jobs.

Employers care more about job expereince than education.

Alot of white collar industries especially look down college graduates.

>>478704
>if children started doing labor immediately, they would develop worker identity
You want to give capital child labor for exploitation, in exchange for an identity ? That seems like a bad deal.
>the youth learns
>reactionary
>in school
Why not try improving the school.

>>478713
>Most children in the nineteenth cetury were helpers on the family farm or workshop.
Not many have family farms anymore and most people in the nineteenth century couldn't read or write.

>>478725
you're such a retarded nig. I'm sorry you hated school enough to base your age autism off of. You're throwing the baby out with the bath water. We need to free up the time of workers to increase leisure time to teach children necessary skills in a 1 on 1. We don't need more financial capital specialists or PMCs but socialism will solve this with reindustrialization in many western states, not by sending our youth to become retards. We need summer camps under a pioneer program to teach rizz not a 9-5.

>>478730
Domt self censor.
Say the N-word.
And unironically, I am black.

And I did well in school.

But I have seen that for most people, including myself, schooling has shown us zero prospect in life.

Also, pioneer summer camp?
Really?
To teach kids rizz?

Youre more retarded than me.

Also, finance capital workers are top of the food chain. Most people are bagging groceries or flipping burgers.
Or stocking shelves.

>>478731
>Say the N-word.
Cleetuhs we've been over this, we're not calling you a Ninja.

You can tell OP has never been around real factory work, or, mill enviroments because the idea of a child working at a steel mill, or, a paper mill is horrifying.

>>478733
then dont say "nig" or ninja.


I hate euphemised cuss words.
It shows immaturity.

Say the real slur, in full, or none at all.

>>478749
wordfilter you reddit spacing uyghur

>>478731
>also, pioneer summer camp?
>to teach kids rizz?
Did you not have a childhood? Summer camps are institutionalized areas of childhood experience so it's more difficult to get left behind. Didn't you ever jump into a creek to impress anyone? Didn't you ever leverage your capabilities at some sport? Didn't you do shit like ask a girl you have a crush on to do a three legged race? This is the foundation of developing what zoomer fags call rizz. I'm calling for a summer of teaching little retards to have fun in a controlled communist co-ed environment so they can learn to have fun and talk with the opposite sex so they don't troon out like you.

>>478752
>This is the foundation of developing what zoomer fags call rizz. I'm calling for a summer of teaching little retards to have fun in a controlled communist co-ed environment so they can learn to have fun and talk with the opposite sex so they don't troon out like you.

>little retards
>zoomer fags

You millennials love labels dont ypu?

Also, yes Im familiar with summer camps.
And theyre not all what thwyre cracked out to be.

In fact, since theyre institutionalised, its just an extension of school.


>Didn't you ever jump into a creek to impress anyone? Didn't you ever leverage your capabilities at some sport? Didn't you do shit like ask a girl you have a crush on to do a three legged race?

This is mostly storybooks and movies.
Imo, reducing childhood to epsiodes of "cute little stunts" is kinda whats contributing to immaturity.

That kind of fun in childhood is boring and regressive after a while.

>>478751
>reddit as a byword


I love the lack of self awareness imageboard users have.
They all love to use Reddit as a byword despite having the same circlejerk tendencies and moralfaggoty opinions.

Everything imageboards complain about are the same things that Reddit complains about.

>>478752
Summer camps are not a proper way to socialise children.

They need to really experience the real world alongside adults.
None of that "cutesy kumbiya" cartoonish crap.

>>478749
"Ninja" is just a random word that begins with a N, which makes it a N-word. It was supposed to be a subtle way of mocking liberal second order racist slurs. But that went woosh over your head.

>>478767
i know it was a joke but thats not the point.

>>478759
Summer camps are part of the real world you gay homo.

>>478781
So are jails and nuthouses.

Does that mean theyre beneficial for social development?

Summer camps are a moral copout for parents. Because public schools dont keep kids for the weekeends or holidays and boarding schools are too expensive.

>>478729
>Why not try improving the school.



We have been doing that for years.
"Improving schools" can only do so much.

Compulsory schooling is just a conevenient moralised form of juvenile jail.

Compulsory schooling is a copout for morally weak parents.

Again, this excessive moral investment in academia for the yputh is why adulthood is being now delayed by fifteen years.

>>478783
We live in an industrial society and unless there is some great calamity we will continue to do so. Industrial society even post industrial financial societies require labor from both sexes. The type of civilization where mommy stays home is a socialist one where leisure time is expanded. You see kidults in the imperial core because home ownership is moving further out of reach and multigenerational families in the west infantilizes it's youngest members since this lacks precedence from the 20th century. The key is to provide state housing, encourage families through favorable tax incentives, and indeed to increase the birth rate. Nothing makes a man out of you better than providing for your own family. Focusing on early child development by sending them to work houses is entirely misguided.

>>478786

The romanticism of family hood is part of the reason for economic crisis.

Also again, alot of parents vuew their own offspring as pets henxe why they wanna put legal sanctions on their kids for pursuing worldly endeavors.

IMO, sending kids to workshops to be trained is properly better because fathers are terrible life coaches.

>>478785
Unrionically yes. What is their to do at summer camp these days?
With helicopter parenting amd "rape culture", and with usual time-old tradition of cliques, its just gonna be a glamorous form of jail.

At least working in fast food you get paid and can leave after a few hours.

Summer camp you get no money amd are stuck for a few weeks.

>>478791
>projection
>babble
>dissembly

yeah anon you're right kids shouldn't learn anything they should be in the onion ring mines learning about "real life" that's true communism right there

>>478795
Thats only the beginning.

Soon they will be working in vegetable gardens and asssembling their own drones.

>>478722
Isnt that what imageboards are?
Bunch of childless single antisocial adults whom think they have authority on childrens' livelihoods?

>OMG WHY SHOULD THAT KITTLE BRAT HAVE A MOBILE COMPUTER PAD? I NEVER HAD THAT THEREFORE THEY SHOYLDNT HAVE THAT EITHER!!

>Omg why are kids these days so cringe? That fashion snd music is so bad! they should be spanked! No nvm what my generation did we wuz gud little boys and girls whom dindunuffin.

Its all projection of childhood experiences. Which is what alot of my OPs are about. Adults have an empathetic deficit towards children's individuality.

This is why I think childhood as some unwordly Eden apart from the real worls is not such a goid idea.

Childhood nostalgia breeds reacrionaryism.

I guarantee that most of our postboomer reacrionaries are faoled adults whom are coping with aging.

>>478812
Jewish nigger, post your garden and post your drone with timestamp.

>>478815
>Uhh uhh yeah my thread was ACTUALLY about exposing all you !am children


Bwahaha, shut up fag please for the love of God go find some other imagebpard to graffiti with your psychopathic able.

>>478822
cope seethe dilate

Tell us more about your "struggles with adulting"

>>478823
still waiting for a photo of your bountiful garden last summer and your homemade drone

>>478823
I make 6 figures and have my own house and sports car. I'm doing fine, sorry to inform you.

>>478830
good then. I hope ypure not one of those people whom prefer their schooldays over their adult life.


Unless of course youre a brokie which I understand.

>>478832
anon, I live my life like any other normal person. The only people who give a shit are people like you who come on obscure image boards to complain that anyone could dare to be anything other than unhappy and bitter.

>>478864
I wouldnt mind if I didnt have to see all these obnoxious nostalgia on imageboards and mainstream cyberspace.

>>478878
if you think having kids do light labor for a paycheck is abuse then I think the problem is you.

>>478886
Define "light" labor.
Furthermore children should be having fun not producing capital for millionaires.

WE DON'T NEED NOOO EDUUCATIOOONNN
WE DON'T NEED NO MIND CONTROOOLLLL
NO DARK SARCASM IN THE CLASSROOOOM
dum dum dum dun dun dun dun dum dum
HEY! TECAHER! LEAVE THEM KIDS ALONE!

>>478899
Children cannot even have fun with all these obnoxious liability laws.

Also, recreation requires money which children are helplessly dependent on parents for.

>>478899
Also I think light work should be essential to childhood curriculum.

The wjole point of having children is to make workers.
We lost sight of this in the mid-twentieth century.

Kids are now seen as pets whose only purpose is to male parents look good through sterilised puppy theatrics aka "academics".

Any worldly elements are criminalised.

And then adukts wanna accuse the kidsof being dumb/lazy/weak when they fail or struggle in life during early adulthood.

>>478906
>Also I think light work should be essential to childhood curriculum.
Curriculum ? I thought you didn't like schools.
Anyway, when children do that, as of yet undefined "light work", they get to keep all the fruits of their labor, like no surplus extraction or anything like that, right ?

Hatred of schoolteachers aside, what I don't get from this discourse is why this assbackwards pedagogy is conflated with learning or intelligence, when it is designed to be the most obtuse method of learning imaginable, and goes out of its way to ensure that no one can really read or understand anything if they cobble together recognition of letters. It is inexcusable that these facilities insist they are the only ones who can teach you to read or teach you what to think, when (a) literacy at a basic level is very easy to attain for anyone who can see and hear language, or work out any sort of system, and (b) we have been capable of mass producing literature by machine for about 500 years. The past excuse was that books had to be reproduced by hand, which made them difficult to acquire in large numbers. Even then, estimates of mass illiteracy in the past have always been a fantasy of aristocracy and pedagogy, far removed from anything the working class historically ever did. It would be difficult to not learn to read, if someone can speak a language and hold any kind of conversation. It is yet another insult of this failed, Satanic race to tell us we're too stupid to learn what symbols on a page mean, because they simply refuse to write or speak in any manner that is appropriate for genuine communication. That's not what humans do.

The entire setup of pedagogy belongs to Antiquity, and the most regressive aspects of it at that. The ancients themselves saw education as a scam and a farce, and bemoaned education for as long as they have written books about it - and this is from the aristocracy who set standards of education and benefit from keeping people as stupid as possible. It fails even at its mission to keep people enslaved and ground down to the same low level of shame. Germanic education only intensified the ugliness of something that is inherent to schooling as a concept, that is inherent to this idiotic way humans imposed on other humans instead of anything that was actually functional.

Today, with film and long-range electronic communication, there is no excuse whatsoever for the existence of this ponderous institution, "school" - and that's exactly what was done in some cases, where they sit the kid in front of a computer and they learn as much as they're going to learn. It's better than human tutors who always find a way to shit it up and hate children. Books and movies and computer programs don't give a shit about the biases of aristocracy, and you know the shriekers will go to war to defend this evil institution and the low level of life it violently imposes. It is further possible today to automate the pedagogue and communication, so much that an AI teacher is far more effective than any human teacher at any task a human would teach. The greatest difficulty of an AI is moral education, and this is not because computers are soul-less. It is because ethics and moral philosophy were so thoroughly destroyed by the eugenic creed that humanity will never be anything else. Satanic race. Failed race.

Learning has nothing to do with what education does, of course. It's always been eugenic in purpose - from the cradle to the grave, education is designed to weed out the population and wage the eternal war. The best you can do is mitigate the damage of such a ruinous institution and the waves of death and despair it brings to the world.

There is no solution to education because education is designed for this grisly function. If the function did not exist, it would be necessary for aristocracy to create it. If there were no more culling and no more ritual sacrifices, humanity as a project ends, and they know it. Members of this failed race will look to each other, look at their history, and conclude there is nothing to salvage from it, and turn away from the institutions forever, never to return. They would then see the best course of action would be to reduce the numbers of threats - other humans - by advancing a doctrine of total rejection from hitherto existing rituals. Because the games humans play create this underclass and refuse to end that under any circumstances, the damned are never lacking for recruits, and it is the aim of aristocracy to ensure that not only will the torture never end, but that it must be maximized. To do otherwise is contrary to the human spirit.

There is, perhaps, another way, but in all cases, humanity was not salvageable and this was decided a long time ago. There isn't really a "natural" purpose to life. We would in a better society see that life does not need to be this. The world itself didn't do anything to make us this way - if anything the world has made it clear that everything we have done in this regard is a bad idea, and so the world reminds us in its way that we really should do literally anything else. Nor was it inherent to intelligence, learning, or even the ordering of society and the existence of hierarchy. It is deliberate malice that is at the heart of this, and the malice will find some way to perpetuate it. But, what is possible is irrelevant. Humanity did do this, and it cannot un-do what it did. Not any more. It might have not come to this, as late as the 1990s. During the last period where the worst case scenario could have been averted, the favored groups committed themselves zealously to the abomination, and now it is too late. It went on for too long, and the last vestiges of a humanity that could have been something else have been snuffed out ingloriously. All of the technological knowledge of this time should have led to the conclusion that nothing about the ancien regime and the ruling institutions is at all acceptable, and those institutions should have been torn down a century ago. Better yet, the tragedy of 1914 should have been seen as the abomination it was, rather than a model to emulate and repeat. Anyone who allowed that faggotry to happen should be dragged out, shot, and burned in Hell forever and ever. Who else did that, but eugenics? No one else benefitted from 1914. The old nobility, the landed aristocracy, were destroyed by the war, reduced to this cult - a cult they joined, but that they could only inhabit as inferior members. The eugenists were and are a middle class movement at the core, and have always been eager to command every revolution and steer it to failure.

You can explain the stupidity of school until your face is blue, when it has always been clear that this method of "teaching" is designed to fail, and we could have distributed books en masse 200 years ago. That was the expectation of anyone who was literate near the end of the 18th century - that the printing press could produce literature for the masses much like the literature many of them read to learn about the world, and that there was no good reason to impede this. It didn't mean that everyone would be equally wise or that everyone would be the same in merits or qualities, but that was never the aim of anyone. The wishes of those who are stupid was not to be told they're smart, but to not be tortured and not be made to suffer purely for the thrill of torture that is at the core of the human race.

>>478919
>it is designed to be the most obtuse method of learning imaginable
Assuming this is true (which it might be), where is the straight forward learning method ?
(not a rhetorical question)
>tell us we're too stupid to learn what symbols on a page mean, because they simply refuse to write or speak in any manner that is appropriate for genuine communication.
same thing, where's the more genuine communication.
I'm not trying to antagonize you, many people feel that language is cumbersome, but one has to go further and propose better alternatives.

>no scarcity of books anymore
fair point, even-though these days schools are more a strategy to deal with the scarcity of teachers and tutors, than books. Also schools serve the purpose of daycare.

>estimates of mass illiteracy in the past have always been a fantasy of aristocracy
This doesn't track, it wasn't just the capitalist countries who did literacy programs, the 20th century socialist did too. You can't be seriously accusing the Soviets and the Maoists of having aristocratic tendencies. Lets say they had a very rude attitude towards the aristocracy.

>sit the kid in front of a computer and they learn
>from AI teacher
The promise of a dedicated tutor for every child is indeed tempting. But every lobby group will line up to insert it's indoctrination bias into this thing. Like the Zionists would try to get the robot to teach children to hate Palestinians, the liberal wing of imperial capital will try to teach children they have to hate the Russians, while the right wing of imperial capital will try to install hate for the Chinese. With schools and teachers there is at least a degree of separation that makes this a little bit harder. How do you suppose we get a tutor-bot that spares children from getting these brain-worms ?

<The Satanic Germanic bla bla
i hope you realize that nobody gets what you mean with this, and that it just sounds like crazy ranting.

>>478922
Feigned ignorance will not save you. You know exactly what I am saying, but act like it's bizarre to ask for simple things, that I must be crazy to question the holy institutions.

Not one part of this rigamarole teaches anyone anything, and it's designed specifically to not teach, and to forbid anyone from learning or any information not controlled by the institution. Education must do this, even in more benign forms. It does not value learning or intelligence as substances, but "goodfacts" and "the right ideas". It always has, and can't do anything else. If you ever wanted to teach someone anything, you wouldn't hector them and insult them ad nauseum. Yet, this is what we are habituated to believe educated people do, and it is a sick perversion to say this is morally upright rather than one of the worst abominations human commit, for it allows all of the others. It always starts with forced ignorance and humiliation rituals.

>scarcity of teachers and tutors
Write it down once and write it well, and teachers are un-necessary. Write a competent program and methodology that would actually teach, and the profession would vanish forever. I learned far more from books and video games than I would ever learn in school, because school was designed to stunt and retard the brain of an already damaged and failed race.

I don't think anything I say is admissible in your Satanic world-system. It is typical of such arrogance to do the farcical double-take whenever someone says education is absurd, like any child who has to pass through this failed system can see.

It's like, the idea that the institutions are the problem is something you can't say in socialist spaces. Why is that, consider everything about early socialism saw the institutions they lived around as failed? Socialism mostly busied itself with social transformation rather than some bizarre political ideology. It's when you go down that line of inquiry that you see the problem of humanity, and their refusal to allow even basic decencies. Any decency for humans is just a holding action to await a greater payoff of thrill of torture in the future. That's what humans decided they would be, and so it is.

So you'd have to ask why you would allow a vehicle of indoctrination untrammeled authority over your children, let alone everyone in the society from cradle to grave, marking down your eugenic qualities in their permanent record. If you don't have this problem, you don't have to worry about which culture war group wishes to commandeer the institutions, because the institutions would be too weak and human beings could exist independently from them.

If you wish to teach people, that is an easy process. It really is - and it doesn't require some rare intelligence that only the "brights" hold as their virtue. Many of the "retards" relegated to sped learn on their own time - their chief problem is a lack of direction and the thrill of torture falling primarily on them. They brag that once they're in there, they're socially dead. The thrill of torture must be maximized.

If you wished to guide people - and humans delight in lying to the face of the condemned - then schools are the exact opposite of that. The entire institution is premised on habitual lying and drilling humans to be something they are not and to conform to the impossible, to distort all moral values and teach pure hedonism so that the thrill of torture can be maximized. There is no other interpretation of such an institution. The pedagogues like their Romans, Americans, choose your imperial subject, to be dumb and brutish.

>>478928
>The psychopathic babbling name fag is now a name fag.

Great

>>478917
Yes, kifs get to keep the fruits of their labor.

Also what do you mean by surplus extraction?

All Im saying is that children are humans not pets.

It makes no sense to ecxlude them from consensus of worldly affairs.

Part of why childrearing is expensive is because society expects parents do all the work.
Kids are expected to stay shackled at home or school.

We all complain about boomer chauvinism, right?

Well this is the way.

Age numbers are terrible metric of ability.
People dont just magically poof into functional beings at thirty.

The negative stereotypes about youth are based on the premise of childrens social assignment as being pets.


Youth can only enjoyed in full if youre trained on worldly affairs.

Innocence is a liability, not a virtue.

>>478930
>Yes, kifs get to keep the fruits of their labor.
>Also what do you mean by surplus extraction?
I could go into the technical weeds of economics, if you want, but roughly speaking, surplus extraction is what enables profits for capitalists and taxes.
No surplus extraction means making sure there's no chance in hell anybody benefits off child labor. This eliminates all the financial reasons why employers or governments might want to bring back child labor. It also makes sure that child workers do not increase competition in the labor market. It wouldn't even grow the economy compared to now. Economically it's completely zero-sum. It would eliminate all the motivations for child labor except for that theoretical life experience benefit you keep talking about.

>>478932
> It would eliminate all the motivations for child labor except for that theoretical life experience benefit you keep talking about.


"Theoretical" life experience or not, the ability to work and earn bread is the foundation of autonomy.

If adults were not allowed to work, unable to earn their own bread, would they be worthy of their respectability as adults?

People too often use age numbers as a moral compass of adulthood.

Yet, we are seeing a decline in technical skills in the past five generations of adults.

The only difference between children and adults is the legal position of laboring, and even that is questionable.
In two centuries, we went from children being miniature adults to adults being overgrown children.

If you think kids doing a bit of light labor to earn pocket money is bad, then you need to look at the disturbing trend of Disney Adults.