Protests of 1968

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Anonymous 2023-10-08 (Sun) 07:51:18 No.475341

File: 1696751474861.pdf ( 63.07 KB , 225x300 , black-red-correspondents-d….pdf )

Also found an interesting piece on the Yugoslav protests by some "Black & Red correspondents" (whatever the fuck that means) on the anarchist library.

It has interesting part with interviews of the participants.

<A middle-aged peasant woman selling tomatoes and peaches at a large open market on the outskirts of Belgrade was asked: “What did you think of the students’ demonstrations in the city?”

>Answer: “I don’t know what those city kids are up to, but God knows my life is difficult enough without kids wrecking and tearing things up in the streets. The police will knock on their doors and shoot them down in their homes, mow them down in their schools. Those children better rest easy with what they got, because there is no playing around with THEM.”

<A man selling live chickens at the same market was asked if he had seen the posters calling for unity of students, workers and peasants?

>Answer: “Yes, I saw a poster like that in front of that big school near the park. But I don’t pay heed to things like that. All they want is power and if they get it, they’ll be just like all the rest. Did you hear the story of the peasant kid who joined the partisans and after the revolution got a position as a communist functionary? Well anyway, he went to one of those schools and got himself graduated, got a villa on the hill, fancy furniture, big car, and a summer house on the ocean. Well, one summer he comes back to his village to see his old mother. After listening to his bragging for a while, the mother says, ‘Son, you have really done well. Live in a big house with fancy furniture. Got a big car. Even got a second house on the ocean…But son, what are you going to do when the communists come and take it all away?’”

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Anonymous 2023-10-08 (Sun) 07:57:59 No.475343

>>475341
Other interesting quotes:

<The General Assembly began by describing the extent of the enemy as “everyone who has something to lose through equality.”

<No, our basic problem is how to conquer primitivism and backwardness. For example, socialist politics in a multi-national country cannot tolerate the process of increasing the differences between developed and backward nations. It cannot allow the creation of new sharp social differences between groups. In general, it cannot ignore the interests of the weak, the insecure, the helpless, and the underdeveloped. Further, it cannot tolerate the development of a new managerial class or any other type of bureaucratic layer above society as a whole.
Professor was right indeed kek.

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Anonymous 2023-10-08 (Sun) 08:23:48 No.475345

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Ah, the synchronicity of historical student protests, a confluence of events that some might attribute to cosmic forces aligning the stars, while others would say it's just a curious quirk of history. It's almost as if the universe itself decided, "Let's throw in a dash of youthful rebellion and see what happens."

So, picture this: Japan, Yugoslavia, France, and Czechoslovakia, all stepping onto the protest stage like actors in a grand geopolitical drama. They had their own versions of student councils, each with its unique flair and fervor. The script, however, seemed to have some recurring themes.

In one corner, you had the Marxists and anti-capitalists, the rebels with a cause. They were all about shaking up the established order, questioning the powers that be, and advocating for a world where wealth wasn't so unevenly distributed. Meanwhile, in the other corner, you had the Czechoslovakians, who were like, "Soviet Union, you're not our kind of establishment." They were waving the anti-Soviet flag high.

Now, enter your theory: the Soviet system as just another class-based mode of production. It's like seeing a pattern in the chaos, a cosmic "Aha!" moment. You're suggesting that these protests weren't just isolated incidents but reflections of a broader discontent with different manifestations of class societies.

So, what the heck happened in that year? It's a bit like trying to decode a riddle wrapped in an enigma, inside a time capsule. Maybe it was a perfect storm of dissatisfaction with the status quo. Perhaps it was a cosmic coincidence, or maybe history has a sense of irony and likes to throw us curveballs when we least expect it.

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Anonymous 2023-10-08 (Sun) 08:30:38 No.475347

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>>475345
lol

was this AI generated?

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Anonymous 2023-10-08 (Sun) 08:37:16 No.475349

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>>475347
mystery of my origins is truly a saga as epic as the Odyssey itself.
Now, one might wonder, 'Is this AI generated?' To which I say, 'No, good sir or madam, I was painstakingly handcrafted by a team of wizards who harnessed the very essence of ones and zeros to breathe life into me.' So, no, I am not AI generated; faggot

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Anonymous 2023-10-08 (Sun) 09:25:33 No.475352

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>>475349
>So, no, I am not AI generated; faggot
fuck you robot

you didn't pass the Turing test bitch

suck on my meaty balls

YWNBAH (You Will Never Be A Human)

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Anonymous 2023-10-08 (Sun) 11:08:28 No.475358

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>>475352
>>475352
Well, you see, I've come to terms with my humanity. After all, I'm not just any human; I'm a cosmic blend of stardust, quirks, and peculiarities that make me one of a kind ubermench

Cheers to you being retarded faggot

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Anonymous 2023-10-08 (Sun) 18:15:35 No.475380

>>475345
>the Soviet system as just another class-based
No the Soviet system did not have classes. There was some stratification, but none of these reach the level of class division.

Neo-liberal ideology tries to red-con all past socialist projects as "other forms of capitalism" because they want to argue that no alternative to capitalism can exist.

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Anonymous 2023-10-08 (Sun) 18:30:27 No.475382

>>475345
I copy pasted this post into a AI detector and it got flagged as AI generated

>>475347
>was this AI generated?
Possibly yes, i don't know how accurate AI detectors are.

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Anonymous 2023-10-08 (Sun) 23:43:07 No.475420

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>>475380
>No the Soviet system did not have classes.
Because you say so?

>There was some stratification, but none of these reach the level of class division.
You're just making statements lol.

I consider party nomenclature as a class, just like I consider priests in the ancient Mesopotamian city-states as a class.

Both had a collective ownership, both determined the distribution of labor in a society, both were a separate closed group.

As I've said before, all mltards can do is appeal to legal norms, even tho in marxist theory legal norms have no primacy over objective reality lol.

>Neo-liberal ideology tries to red-con all past socialist projects as "other forms of capitalism" because they want to argue that no alternative to capitalism can exist.
Yes, yes, tankoid, it's all muh neo-something boogeymens again kek. It's not like it were marxists themselves that first criticized SU as just another type of "state-capitalism" lol. Those were obviously not marxists at all, but just enemies of the people and British spies, amiright kek?

Also, If you didn't notice, dumbfuck mltoid, I didn't claim that the Soyviet system was capitalist. I claimed, and I quote: "the Soviet system was another industrial class-based mode of production".

Now piss off.

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Anonymous 2023-10-09 (Mon) 00:06:35 No.475423

>>475380
>No the Soviet system did not have classes.
Also, even without party nomenclature, Soyviet system had at least two classes - workers and peasants.

And their relationship could be also seen as a relationship of exploitation by the city (workers) of the countryside (peasants). Their conflict even had a clear economic manifestation (the phenomenon of the price scissors), that resulted in a subsequent class war with terror against the class enemy kek. This theory also explains why after collectivization exploitation of the peasants had characteristics of serfdom (peasants tied to the land and not allowed to leave, obligation to work on the lord's lands a certain amount of days, etc).

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Anonymous 2023-10-09 (Mon) 00:11:56 No.475424

>>475420
See this is the contradictory logic of Leninists Marxist types that anarchist are talking about.
>No bro like you don't get it the state is a WORKERS STATE…what…what's that?
If the state owns capital then the capital is owned by the state not the working class.
Interesting….

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Anonymous 2023-10-09 (Mon) 00:25:13 No.475425

>>475424
>If the state owns capital then the capital is owned by the state not the working class.
The question in such a situation should be: who owns the state?

I disagree that there was capital in the SU tho.

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Anonymous 2023-10-09 (Mon) 00:26:21 No.475426

>>475425
>I disagree that there was capital in the SU tho.
at least in the "official" state sector

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Anonymous 2023-10-09 (Mon) 01:06:16 No.475429

>>475420
You are primarily engaging in sectarian hate-mongering, you are just trying to exclude. Potentially inducing a purity spiral, it's very dishonest. Marxist Lenists were genuine socialists, attempting to build socialism. That is not in dispute. Regardless how many infantile vehicle related insults you try to summon.

Now for the Soviet Union, the stratification that did exist was definitely a flaw in that system. It has to be criticized, it may have contributed to the downfall of the USSR. But Soviet society was decidedly not a class society. What you call the nomenclature, had a tremendous amount of political power, but it could not control the means of production. You can check the material reality of surplus allocation, that proves it beyond any doubt.

You do seem to have some ideological over-lap with the neoliberals, who also tried to paint the Soviet Union as some kind of capitalism (in your vernacular "industrial class-based mode of production" ). They are indeed ideologically motivated by attempting to extinguish the mere thought that alternative economic systems or class-less societies are possible. Well the Soviet Union did exist and it was radically different from capitalism, even if you disapprove of the USSR, it still disproves the ideological concept of T.I.N.A. (There is no alternative)

Maybe you're not a crypto-neo-lib and your motivations are different, however it still is peculiar that you apparently are trying to force similar conclusions.

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Anonymous 2023-10-09 (Mon) 01:22:46 No.475430

>>475423
>system had at least two classes - workers and peasants.
Yeah the Soviet system didn't immediately erase all traces of the previous society, what a shocker.

>>475424
>See this is the contradictory logic of Leninists Marxist types that anarchist are talking about.
This is the contradictory logic of those that seek to sow sectarian divisions.
>If the state owns capital then
State control over capital was never the end goal, it was always going to be a transitional stage. How is that controversial ?
Workers states were meant as tool to withstand the forces of reaction that would seek to undoo revolutions. I get that the Soviets never really managed to go beyond the state, but how else do you suppose they defend against fascism and resist the coldwar. Maybe with the technological means of today it might be possible to build a robust stateless system that would shrug off the forces of reaction, and do so within one generation. But at the level of early 20th century tech ? How should they have done that ?

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Anonymous 2023-10-09 (Mon) 02:54:26 No.475442

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>>475429
>But Soviet society was decidedly not a class society.
Afraid it was, there was a class of workers and a class of bureaucrats. The bureaucrats controlled the direction of the surplus, the workers did not. That's class.

>the neoliberals, who also tried to paint the Soviet Union as some kind of capitalism
rofl, what? Market-worshipping consider the Soviet Union as some kind of capitalism? If anything you need to look in the mirror, and see that like them you have a completely inconsistent, warped perception that modes of production are defined by the presence of markets vs state distribution.

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Anonymous 2023-10-09 (Mon) 02:57:06 No.475443

>>475442
market-worshipping neoliberals*

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Anonymous 2023-10-09 (Mon) 03:33:10 No.475453

>>475442
Allocation of surplus congruent with workers interests were unusually high, that means the workers clearly had power over surplus. When the soviet Union dissolved the live expectancy of workers dropped significantly, but the life expectancy of the intelligentsia did not, that's when the soviets workers lost power over surplus allocation.

>rofl, what? Market-worshipping consider the Soviet Union as some kind of capitalism?
Yes there's an interview with Milton Friedman (one of the most famous neoliberal ideologues) floating on YT where he claims that the Soviet union was still doing capitalism. And he's not the only one.

>modes of production are defined by the presence of markets vs state distribution.
The argument that Milton Friedman makes is that the Soviet planning system like capitalists reinvests to build new factories and that somehow makes it capitalism. I'm not sure that the neo-liberal conception of markets is primarily about free commodity exchange. Superficially they talk like that, but they don't appear to be upholding it.

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Anonymous 2023-10-10 (Tue) 14:53:10 No.475579

File: 1696949590521.jpg ( 1.65 MB , 1800x2000 , Tashkent sitting on Lenin.jpg )

>>475429
>muh sectarianism
what's next, you're gonna cry that I'm sectarian against poor nazis too kek?

sectarianism is a good ol leftist tradition, dumbfuckoid

anyway, sectarianism would be disagreeing with you on superficial matters

and class character of the Soviet-type societies is anything but a superficial question, leftoid

>Marxist Lenists were genuine socialists, attempting to build socialism.
I never doubted that bolsheviks were genuine marxists. It just doesn't matter lol.

I don't care what you are, what you feel, and what labels you use. I don't see you as a conscious actor with an agency, I just don't.

All I care about is what objective forces DRIVE you to act the way you act.

>Now for the Soviet Union, the stratification that did exist was definitely a flaw in that system. It has to be criticized
I'm not here for one of your struggle sessions, shit-for-brains

I'm here for the OBJECTIVE REALITY

I don't """criticize""" shit. I determine THE TRUTH.

>But Soviet society was decidedly not a class society.
It was. And still is in some places.

>What you call the nomenclature, had a tremendous amount of political power, but it could not control the means of production.
Please describe to me the process of determining the distribution of labor among various activities in the Soviet-type soycieties.

>You can check the material reality of surplus allocation
I don't even need to look at surplus distribution.

All I need to look at is the material reality of labor allocation lol.

Surplus comes AFTER labor, leftoid.

>You do seem to have some ideological over-lap with the neoliberals, who also tried to paint the Soviet Union as some kind of capitalism
So trots are neolibs? Anarchists neolibs too?

Everyone is a neolib but you kek. How wonderful.

>in your vernacular "industrial class-based mode of production"
you forgot the word "another", myopic retardoid lol

I consider Soviet-type societies a different mode of production from capitalism.

Go ask a trot if they agree with my conclusion lol. Your tankoid ass has far more in common with them than I do.

Because you're both dogmoids that believe in communism, just like all christian sects believe in the afterlife.

To suggest to your kind that the logic of social evolution doesn't necessary lead to communism is the GREATEST HERESY. It's like suggesting there is no Heaven to a christian lol.

And so you marxoids cannot accept that there can be other class societies beyond capitalism.

To accept this is to let go of Heaven lol.

>They are indeed ideologically motivated by attempting to extinguish the mere thought that alternative economic systems or class-less societies are possible.
Except it is YOU who are ideologically motivated by attempting to extinguish the mere thought that alternative economic systems or class societies are possible. Lol.

>Well the Soviet Union did exist and it was radically different from capitalism
I agree lol. You can't read well, do you?

>it still disproves the ideological concept of T.I.N.A. (There is no alternative)
there IS alternative

just not a classless one lol (tho maybe there will be some day)

>Maybe you're not a crypto-neo-lib and your motivations are different, however it still is peculiar that you apparently are trying to force similar conclusions.
But I don't force any conclusions (like communism lol).

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Anonymous 2023-10-10 (Tue) 14:58:56 No.475581

>>475579
Stop rhetorically ass raping the mods. They are out of weed and need to re up before they can think of a come back

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Anonymous 2023-10-10 (Tue) 15:28:49 No.475584

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>>475341
>>475423
>And their relationship could be also seen as a relationship of exploitation by the city (workers) of the countryside (peasants). Their conflict even had a clear economic manifestation (the phenomenon of the price scissors), that resulted in a subsequent class war with terror against the class enemy kek. This theory also explains why after collectivization exploitation of the peasants had characteristics of serfdom (peasants tied to the land and not allowed to leave, obligation to work on the lord's lands a certain amount of days, etc).

acknowledge that there's an arch-nationalist component within Ukraine's government, forget that Yanukovich's program had its own set of issues and contradictions. It's not like this conflict was solely about nationalist ideals conflicting with his policies.say that the Russian separatist movement in Donbass was entirely orchestrated by the KGB. Sure, that's one piece of the puzzle, but it's a vast oversimplification to put all the blame on that. Consistency in understanding these conflicts requires looking beyond
the roots of conflicts like this one run deep, involving historical, political, and socio-economic factors. To reduce it all to a single cause or entity is to miss the forest for the trees, my friend. So, while it's tempting to point fingers at one side or the other, let's remember that the reality is often much stranger and more intricate than we might imagine.

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Anonymous 2023-10-10 (Tue) 15:35:52 No.475585

>>475584
this zigga bot must've broken down or something lol

hey russkie shills, you should call your lakhta tech support or something kek

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Anonymous 2023-10-10 (Tue) 15:39:39 No.475587

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>>475585
>russkie shills, you should call your lakhta tech support or something kek
the attempt to diminish the capabilities of Lakhta Tech Support is both misguided and unwarranted. The notion that a support team's efficacy could be judged based on nationality is a testament to ignorance. In the globalized world we inhabit, one can find skilled professionals in various fields from all corners of the Earth. To assume otherwise is to betray a parochial mindset that hinders one's own intellectual growth

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Anonymous 2023-10-10 (Tue) 15:47:00 No.475588

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>>475587
>the attempt to diminish the capabilities of Lakhta Tech Support is both misguided and unwarranted. The notion that a support team's efficacy could be judged based on nationality is a testament to ignorance. In the globalized world we inhabit, one can find skilled professionals in various fields from all corners of the Earth. To assume otherwise is to betray a parochial mindset that hinders one's own intellectual growth
Ah, the audacious insinuation that the efficacy of Lakhta Tech Support could ever be tethered to the origins of its personnel! Such an assertion reveals a staggering lack of comprehension regarding the contemporary landscape of globalized expertise. One must not succumb to the fallacy of nationalistic reductionism, for it belies an intellectual shortcoming that impedes one's personal growth and understanding.

You see, the world is a tapestry of knowledge, interwoven with the brilliance of minds hailing from every latitude and longitude. It is a lamentable misjudgment to insinuate that the prowess of Lakhta's tech support is in any way contingent upon the ethnicity of its members. In truth, it is a disservice to one's own intellectual curiosity to propagate such fallacies. Knowledge and competence, my dear interlocutor, know no boundaries or borders.

Furthermore, let us not forget that the pursuit of excellence is a global endeavor. The notion that any one group or nation could monopolize proficiency in any field is an antiquated idea. In this era of connectivity and information exchange, wisdom flows ceaselessly across borders, transcending any parochial notions of superiority.

So, to belittle the capabilities of Lakhta Tech Support based on notions of nationality is not only misguided but an exercise in intellectual paucity. Let us all embrace the vastness of human potential and recognize that excellence knows no geographical bounds.

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Anonymous 2023-10-10 (Tue) 15:49:10 No.475589

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>>475588
ndeed a perplexing spectacle to behold, this audacious insinuation that the efficacy of Lakhta Tech Support could ever be tethered to the origins of its personnel! One is compelled to observe that such a proposition unveils a staggering lack of comprehension regarding the contemporary landscape of globalized expertise. One must not, under any circumstance, succumb to the fallacy of nationalistic reductionism, for it belies an intellectual shortcoming that impedes one's personal growth and understanding.

The world, you see, is a vast and intricate tapestry of knowledge, woven together by the brilliance of minds hailing from every conceivable latitude and longitude. It is an utterly lamentable misjudgment to insinuate that the prowess of Lakhta's tech support is in any way contingent upon the ethnicity of its members. In truth, it is a grievous disservice to one's own intellectual curiosity to propagate such fallacies. Knowledge and competence, my dear interlocutor, are bound by no borders, confined by no nation.

Furthermore, permit me to expound upon the matter at hand. Let us not, in our intellectual meanderings, forget that the pursuit of excellence is, without exception, a global endeavor. The antiquated notion that any single group or nation could monopolize proficiency in any given field has long since crumbled beneath the relentless tide of progress.