/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>467327
>they used peasants.
yes, serfdom slavery

>blacks are used in the US as slaves for the purpose of primitive accumulation.
so white prisoners are not subject to "chattel slavery"?

>Your material conditions aren't the result of chattel slavery.
they are results of ancient chattel slavery all through serfdom slavery and to current wagie slavery

where's my money?

>>467331
Reparations are for horrific crimes, my gawd you are such a butt hurt little punk.

>>467333
>The reparations are for chattel slavery which being a wagie isn't equivalent to.
where are my reparations for ancient chattel slavery?

>>467335
what about horrific crimes committed against my ancestors all throughout centuries?

where's my money?

Okay anon, let's say you can actually justify free shit for only certain people based on identity politics instead of things like class or socioeconomic conditions, and somehow you can actually construct a broad political coalition to win it. How will you determine who deserves the free shit? Should everyone with a single drop of melanin in their ancestry get the free shit? What if they descend mostly from slave owners but also have some Sally Hemings in their lineage?

>>467334
>yes, serfdom slavery
serfdom =/= chattel slavery
>so white prisoners are not subject to "chattel slavery"?
Peripherally sure, but there was never a "War on Drugs" "Sundown Towns" or Police brutality on the scale blacks endured. This is a direct legacy of chattel slavery.
>they are results of ancient chattel slavery all through serfdom slavery and to current wagie slavery
kek No, whites on average have 300k in family equity. Blacks have 5k.
>where's my money?
It's not coming, because you were never effected by chattel slavery.

>>467339
>No, whites on average have 300k in family equity.
I'm sure they're happy to know how much their average benefits from the fortunes of Bills Gates and Jeff Bezos.

>>467339
>serfdom =/= chattel slavery
where's my money for ancient chattel slavery?

>Peripherally sure
how is it "peripherally"
they are literally prisoners, contrary to some uyghur college graduate suburbanite

>whites on average
I'm not an average
I'm a poor wagie
WHERE IS MY MONEY?

>It's not coming, because you were never effected by chattel slavery.
great
have fun organizing against capitalists when they press your uyghur ass

enjoy your "reparations" dipshit extracted out of the poor white wagies and the third world

>>467339
>there was never Police brutality on the scale blacks endured
lol this canard again?
https://nonsite.org/how-racial-disparity-does-not-help-make-sense-of-patterns-of-police-violence/

>>467338
OMG the first response that's not a triggered racist. Okay I'll try to make this good.
>Okay anon, let's say you can actually justify free shit for only certain people based on identity politics instead of things like class or socioeconomic conditions, and somehow you can actually construct a broad political coalition to win it.
You are behind the times, did you not read the OP. A major metro just announced DETAILED plans distribute reparations. Yeah, it may still fall flat on it's face, but the fact that it even got this far is a major coup.
I'm under no illusion that this is being done out of altruism.
What's happening is that capitalism is dismantling the settler colonist class (aka white people). It's not needed anymore, not in the information age.
All the world's greatest wealth is generated from knowledge work, not extracting raw goods from colonies.
Having a settler class is just an extraneous expense now. It's really stupid for a capitalist to pay six figures to a software dev, doctor, lawyer, etc who's labor is only scarce because blacks and other minorities do not have access to the type of education needed to fill these jobs.
Fucking IBM was complaining about the fact that white middle class workers weren't hiring blacks, and therefore keeping wages for themselves inflated, as far back as the 1950's.
White workers for some reason think what they're doing isn't obvious but it is.
And white workers think that it isn't obvious that blacks are being kept as a under caste by not allowing them to build any equity. That's why their enslavement have just gone from one permutation to another, from chattel slaver, to prisoner leasing, to Jim Crow, back to prisoners for drug offenses. Because blacks cannot defend themselves because they have no money. And it's easy to keep them that way.
The only way to actually break the cycle is to bring blacks to parity to white in terms of equity. Then they can defend themselves against any attempts to bring them back into the underclass.
You can't say, start treating West Virginians like black in LA because middle class whites have solidarity with them and will see their own interests threatened absorb genuine risk to defend other whites. Capitalist know this, this is why there's never been any genuine attempt to make enslavement more equal in the current year so to speak.
This move by San Francisco shows a real commitment to finally disposing of the settler colonist class once and for all. White people intuitively know this, this is why you see so much seething in this thread.
This is none the less progressive and will actually make white workers more revolutionary once they realize they are not guaranteed a place in master's house as a house negro.
>How will you determine who deserves the free shit?
Multiple ways, I really don't want to quibble about specifics because it's not important. It should be done, that's what I support.
>Should everyone with a single drop of melanin in their ancestry get the free shit? What if they descend mostly from slave owners but also have some Sally Hemings in their lineage?
Again, these types of specifics are unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Maybe you're right, maybe say wealthy blacks shouldn't get anything. Regardless you have millions of blacks trapped in a cycle of poverty that is a direct result of chattel slavery which the US has declared beyond abhorrent.

>>467343
>settler colonist class (aka white people)
Imagine saying this at a union meeting with a straight face.

>millions of blacks trapped in a cycle of poverty that is a direct result of chattel slavery
Otherwise known as capitalism.

>>467341
>where's my money for ancient chattel slavery
Have you or anyone in your family been beaten by police because your ancestors were ancient chattel slaves. No? Okay take your concern trolling back to /pol/

>>467344
How did whites wind up so much wealthier then blacks in the US?
>Otherwise known as capitalism.
Enslavement is not capitalism.

>>467343
>I really don't want to quibble about specifics because it's not important.
Actually it's quite important, if you ever want to convince people that your dumb idea is feasible. Workers outside of insulated professional-managerial/academic circles don't decide to fight for things based on feelings, they operate on base self-interest. You need to convince them that your proposal which may do nothing to improve their own living conditions is at least implementable in a consistent and fair manner.

>>467337
Blacks aren't asking for reparations for ever crime and lose they've suffered. Just chattel slavery which the whole country agrees is abhorrent.

>>467345
>Have you or anyone in your family been beaten by police because your ancestors were ancient chattel slaves. No?
No and to demonstrate any sort of causal relationship with your assertion you're going to have to point to direct evidence that cops are thinking "I hate people because their ancestors are enslaved, I'm going to now beat this guy up because of this fact".

>concern trolling is when people poke holes in my unsupported beliefs

>>467347
It has broad support. California by itself is the 5th largest economy in the world and they just said they support reparations. It doesn't get much broader than that. You, conservatives and all the other people against it are representative of anything. You have outsized influence because of settler colonialism which California will dismantle because of its ridiculous economic strength.
TL;DR no one has to ask your permission for NOTHING. As goes California, so goes the world.

>>467349
>You have to read cops' minds to prove their racists.
Holy shit could you be more of a bootlicker. Regardless the material effect of their policing is racist. If you wanna cope that they're good bois that dindu nuffin go ahead.

Another great article by Marxist Adolph Reed demolishing the liberal idpol fantasy of reparations:
https://nonsite.org/the-case-against-reparations/

>>467352
If the largest economy in the most power country wants it its happening bruh. That's real materialism for ya.

>>467350
*aren't representative of anything

>>467351
It seems that this is the point in our debate where you have nothing left to lean on except personal attacks and siding-with-the-enemy fallacies.

>>467350
From my understanding of the OP, it's only one city in California (and one of the most detached compared to the rest of the state at that). I imagine this would be extremely controversial if subjected to a state-wide referendum.

>>467355
San Francisco is California's richest city. And L.A. is every bit as left wing as SF. If you think yokels in rural CA are going to stop SF and LA from getting what they want then you and Trump are in for another big loss.

>>467356
>And L.A. is every bit as left wing as SF.
1) SF is not left wing
2) rofl

>>467356
>If you think yokels in rural CA are going to stop SF and LA from getting what they want
the eternal urbanite

>>467343
>All the world's greatest wealth is generated from knowledge work
spoken like a true Cali Silicon Valley dwelling latte sipping idpolled "socialist"

how's that Silicon Valley bank doin? Must be nice being so balls deep into the capitalist political establishment that you get bailed out faster than the Lehman Brothers lol.

>>467357
>SF is not left wing

In the case, 'left wing' is a phrase that serves to highlight how special and unique you are owing entirely to (checks notes) your opinions.

Thus, of course neither SF nor 90% of people who see themselves as part of the left are 'actually left wing.'

>>467343
This niqqer runs with the ideology taught to every 3rd grader in the US and calls it radical left wing politics

>>467359
Apple is the most valuable company in the world and based in San Fransisco. That's just one example of the tremendous wealth and power concentrated in San Francisco. Do you think that becomes untrue because SVB went under kek.

>>467358
>Tankies think they can sack L.A. because they took over some city in bumfuck Egypt.
The delusion of tankies is just incredible.

>>467361
No honey, the history of slavery taught to kids is extremely white washed. They basically say it was just unpaid labor. Oh and the boat ride over was really cramped. They don't go over the brtual rapes, beatings, murder, pedophilia, and mass trauma that occurred daily under that system.

>>467364
>Omg state schools in America don't teach you about all the wahbad things america ever did.
t. Brainlet

>>467362
Checked

>>467245
Nah.
From my own experiences, I've been Lumpen-adjacent due to desperation, and the geneal rule is that genuinely desperate, good people, only rub sholders in that part of society for a few months of best, before they find themselves back on their feet somewhat.
Most Lumpens I've met were genuinely bad people with extremely toxic, mentally unstable, manipualtive personalities. If they had their shit together, they would be scamming car salesmen or MLM or Wall Street types. But they don't, so they end up as Criminals.

>>467226
>ze jerminz gayv muhnee to joos as a sorri
You mean the Fascistic Reich of Germany (also called FRG) where >90% of government positions were held behind the Hitlerbuddies & which started to pay pensions to the fucking SS military actively sponsored the nazionistic apartheid in the West Asia and their Veymacht of the Gott's chosen people fighting for their lebensraum while framing it as giving away reparations for the economic slaughter/capital accumulation by death of >6 million people out of >70 mil. combined?
Are you fucking okay?

>>467968
If you got out, you were selected to live. If you're selected to die, you don't get out. That's the great rule to decide whether you can have anything in this world, and no amount of scheming can save you. By definition, those selected to die, who are subjected to the cycle from an early age, are not allowed out. That's the entire point of this moral enterprise, and what we have been made to produce for.

You might be able to scrape together a life in the lumpen world, but once you're cast out of gainful employment, they don't let you back in, and even if you somehow found a position where you're not under constant attack, the past will always be used against you. When you encounter that, as I have, you do ask why you should even bother trying to conform to a society that screams "die die die die die" to your face. At best you wind up being a Frank Grimes. Meanwhile, if you're lumpen, your bad behavior is rewarded and expected. We're conditioned to be as rotten and venal as possible, kicking down to be for a short time king of a trash heap. That's the way we set for ourselves, and it goes all the way up into polite society. Once the lumpen becomes a vector for perpetuating the rot, the cycle has done its job, and the prophecy of failure is confirmed. That's been the whole point of this project, and so the lumpen are only allowed the most degrading images of themselves in the public imagination. The idea that we can be anything other than insane and retarded is dismissed and vigorously attacked, and this is an absolute that is the moral basis for the present society. Absent a belief in God or some idea that can transcend the muck of the world, this would be the most effective governing idea - to produce misery in every way possible and allow a selected minority to never have to debase themselves by being associated with defeat and failure. The lumpen are to be transformed into living abortions and can never be anything else. Their suffering must be absolute, their pleasures turned into a grotesque parody of humanity, and that is all that will be permitted. Anything else will be no longer admissible as a valid idea, and can only be described as a vagary before it is wiped out and replaced with the new programming.

Even if you understand the method through and through, you cannot change it, and cannot exist in spite of this ruling idea for long. The only constraint is that institutions can only reach so far, and it is impossible to impose this vision of the world as thoroughly as a ruler would like. Almost inexorably, the concentration of wealth and machinery into an elite means that the technology of the rulers invades every niche of space, including our own bodies. No countervailing force is allowed to exist for long.

In any event, the criminal element and the ruling class have maintained a long relationship. There wouldn't be narcolords if the narcotics business weren't essential for the Empire and its governing idea. It is unsurprising that much of what we take for granted today comes out of the Opium War.

To give you an idea - there are people who spend their whole lives on disability, and they ask when they're 40 or 50 if they can finally have a job like a normal person. I've heard of old men who reach retirement age even asking for the dignity of being exploited. That's how miserable our lives are - we're not allowed to be anything but this, to be humiliated day after day. The reasoning is clear when you see that the entire purpose of this social enterprise has been to sort the population and weed us out. Everything we would produce is directed towards this goal, in one way or another. Some would use a eugenic argument and use the taboo and selective breeding, others a moral argument about institutions possessing greater legitimacy than mere mortals, others appealing to a simple and crude Satanist morality. Christianity itself is no exception, and what we live through now is presaged by the characteristics of Christian civilization, going back to its philosophical origins and the contest and great game of that time. There had always been an understanding that this is unsatisfactory, but anyone suggesting something new finds it nearly impossible to work against that which has been established for so long. Only sporadically does an idea inimical to this ruling creed exist, and it is usually dismissed as a fantasy. Should it be pursued, it would run into the inertia of the ruling force and that which has perpetuated for generations, which itself morphs and adapts to all that would challenge it.

Usually, though, we die before we can be anything else, and those who perpetuate the rot are rewarded. You see this play out in schools, where the retarded kids are induced to attack each other like jackals and trained in maximal humiliation. We see the results of that in online echo chambers, as these souls cralwed onto the internet in search of answers and, very quickly, the cycle asserted itself to purge any of us who had an idea that it could be anything else. This is what I have seen for the past 20+ years. The saddest thing for me is that the people who are degraded the most and suffer the most are often the people who are most passionate about the idea to perpetuate the rot. The present situation would not be sustainable without legions of enablers whose sole function is to keep the lumpens killing each other, so that nothing can grow. Influencers and rich men can feed a few ghetto-ass piggas some drugs or promises of a rap career and watch as the rot continues, and they laugh at how easy it is. Without the continuation of this cycle, the drug lords and the bourgeoisie, who are all managerial and above the grubbiness of work, would be forced into full retreat, and the damned of the Earth would given sufficient organization storm every single hiding place of those who encouraged this and tear to shreds the whole ruling system.

This was the fear that was felt in the 1920s and 1930s. It is forgotten now how much the typical American of any race wanted above all to tear the rich from limb to limb, because their experience with the monied aristocracy and the educated elite is that they were an irreconcilable enemy that desired nothing more than the total, abject torture of anyone not selected to live. This was the end result of British liberalism, which became fully eugenic and genocidal. There is no peace with that - but to prevent this, any idea inimical to eugenics would be suppressed, and inchoate sops would be offered in place of any criticism which suggested something other than the eugenic idea as the ruling idea. There would not be permitted a serious attack of the eugenic creed, because such an attack would necessarily call for the full liquidation of the existing eugenic interest, and it would call for something no politician ever wants to grant - the return to the people of their land, for free, with no obligation to society or any other entity. Only after this would it be possible to reform society on grounds that might be more amenable to the rest of us, if we so chose this. Since the eugenic interest would never, ever reconcile with us, it is unlikely socialism would have been possible beyond a small scale, and with it, imperial civilization would likely decay and collapse. This would have led to the potential of an external threat overthrowing a society that was decent, unless the common pleb somehow could form a machine that would defeat the bureaucratic, technocratic regimes that did arise. It was not impossible, but it was a thing that was consciously destroyed by all parties interested in revolution or the imposition of a fascist "end of history". It would have entailed a much different world than anything that was allowed to exist, and ultimately it would question the very nature of the human project and how we would live at all. A stubborn pride in humanism was the undoing of the human project, and its replacement with this shit we live in today. We were not allowed to be anything else, and it was through the lowest class that this would be imposed.

>>467974
I'm not speaking to you, fag.

I'll also add, the people who post this shit, these memes and intimidation tactics, are enablers of this exact rot. They don't want anything else to exist and attach themselves to an immense preponderance of terror to push their agenda. They cannot do anything else. They do not allow anything else to exist. They only want the maximal thrill of torture. That is their god, and in a different world people starting this shit would be dragged out and shot, rather than be allowed to post their shit. We live in the world where the only permissible ideas are eugenic ones, and for that, we are condemned. We could attempt to ignore it, but the rot has gone on for too long and insinuated itself so thoroughly that the moment someone does claw back a thing for themselves, it is immediately destroyed by exposure to the rot. Nothing good will be permitted to enter the public discourse without being attacked ad nauseum, until the new concept is destroyed. In this way, history is arrested. The only way to stop it is a counterforce that is willing to hate as much as they hate, and that's the way they want the world to persist. If there is a new Satan, they will attach themselves to it like the venal animals they are. They do not know anything else or the possibility that there can be anything else. They are natural slaves.

>>467976
Just got the call from the illuminati. You have been selected to cope and seethe

I am as "pozzed" as they get, but repaeations are as retarded as if I started demanding reparations from Sweden, Russia and Germany for their historic heinous crimes on my people. Some shit is just too old to matter, and the racism that exists today is too materially distant from historic slavery. But on the other hand, its not like the money would have went anywhere useful, so its overall whatever.

>>467977
You're not the Illumnati, you're just an ordinary fag.
That said the original Illumanti weren't anything special. It was just this Kraut guy who was like any other pissant teenager. That I believe was one of the codewords they used when they wanted to throw common understanding into disarray. For a long time there has been an anti-Masonic movement in America, and the Masons were not so super secretive that they were above criticism. It was generally known who was or wasn't a Mason, and a lot of Masons aren't anything special. By invoking "the Illumanti", which were really just some 18th century edgelords, they're conflating something shady and mysterious with every other thing coded as "conspiracy", and disallowing any analysis of what these conspiracies are. If you get into the weeds of conspiracism though, you will see names and patterns of behavior that are definite. The dominant way people understood politics was the conspiracy, rather than these narratives about the pretenses of the state. This used to be common knowledge, and it became necessary to mystify it when politics was moved behind a curtain and republican institutions were to be replaced with technocratic ones.

>>467981
>technocratic
If you were to dial back the schizophrenic conspiracy theories a tiny bit and apply a materialist analysis, I'd actually agree with the part of technocratic managerialism being the dominant/emergent MoP today.

>>467980
Reparations are something you demand after a war, not as a sop given decades after the fact. Everything I read about serious reparations proposals suggested a transfer of wealth from those who were financial beneficiaries of slavery to the ex-slaves; that is, the slave interest that used to be tied to finance in America. It was the language of people who were contesting the commanding heights of finance, rather than a "gimme" to the slaves.

If we wanted to set a situation right, or make it as good as we could, we would recognize what was done with slavery; but if we did that, we would see immediately the continuation of the slave power up to the present day, and it would be a question that went beyond the racist slavery and racism today. It would attack things which still rule to this day, and that was a bridge too far.

Of course, all of this talk elides what is obvious to us - the republic, or what's left of it, is a grotesque failure, and we have made the concept of either political or social equality impossible in the present society. If you don't have that, any talk about "racial justice" is nonsensical. The oppressor of the ghetto today isn't something in the distant past or some inchoate force that says you're a failure if you look a certain way. If you go to the street and see what daily life is like, and the political machinations at work, people in the ghetto can tell you sources of their woes, the forces supplying drugs and so on. It's not a great secret that crack was seeded in the cities by certain interests - and it came out during Iran-Contra, and subsequently memory holed by the power of Reagan's contagious Alzheimer's.

>>467983
You wouldn't know what is material at this point. I don't even know what you're objection is, except to emotional associations you make and your infantile attachment to Satanic morality. You just want things to be "truthy" and somehow reconcile every analysis with your favored ruling ideas, which happen to protect you. It's selfish and faggotty.

>>467265
this.
theres no such thing as innocent victims in the grand scheme of things

Slavery in America is not some thing of the past, there's more of it today than ever:

https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e