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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.464825

Radhika Desai and Michael Hudson are arguing that inflation is mainly caused by rent-seeking capital doing asset inflation. They are doing an economic policy that will cause a recession, and are doing this on purpose, a bad economy will increase unemployment, and that will harm the economic interests of workers.

So are recessions a type of class-war by capitalists against workers ?

If they do this, aren't they screwing them selves too?
In the present by letting China overtake the US economically even faster
And in the future through labor-supply shortages because recessions drive down labor birthrates.

https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=ZhZbB0jjDTM
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 No.464827

File: 1675194838508.png ( 47.29 KB , 1000x406 , kondratievwave.png )

capitalism has recession every 10 years
(back in the day every other year)

lrn2cycles

capitalism can't even work without them in fact, it is fundamentally improper and ultimately a ponzi scheme (including the very currency)

'economic stability' under capitalism just means that you have job for maybe three other years
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 No.464833

File: 1675197849929.jpg ( 33.38 KB , 1256x515 , wave phades out.jpg )

>>464827
I'm skeptical about kondratiev cycles or long waves theory in economics because

Alan Woods quote:
>Kondratiev's ideas are being used by bourgeois economists to justify the idea that the capitalist system can go on indefinitely in a never-ending series of "long waves" in which long periods of downswing are automatically followed by long periods of upswing and vice versa. It is rather like an economic version of the "perpetual motion machine" which people have endeavoured to discover for centuries, but which so far has not been found anywhere under the sun.
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 No.464835

File: 1675199156944.png ( 38.96 KB , 594x356 , Gothenburg_week_sum.png )

>>464833
i think kondratiev never meant them being something infinite

its idea is that da system gets out of controll then you need to 'reinstall capitalism' like you do with windows 98 because that the only option it seem, because its fundamentally fucked
but the new install will see the similar pattern bacause nothing really changes (in its operation, maybe it has some patches now but its not fundamentally different)

waves naturally exist in many things or data

you don't have to invent them

tldr; he didn't mean old wave is exactly like new wave, but they're still usually have similar patterns thus waves
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 No.464838

File: 1675199886555.jpg ( 74.84 KB , 576x720 , CNAf0730PolybiusAnacyclosi….jpg )

literally memes from ancient greece
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 No.464839

File: 1675200197264.jpg ( 118.67 KB , 1024x768 , meme.jpg )

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 No.464846

Reccessions happen because of inflation in the economy that is typically driven by the fed being forced to print money to keep the economy from sinking. Think about covid and how many industries needed to be bailed out because of the sinking economy and the economic shut down looming over the horizon. I mean, Radhika Desai isn't neccesarily wrong that inflation is caused by rent seeking behavior in the market. Hell he might even be right that this is the kernel outside of the fed because it makes the most sense, but, I fail to actually see how it is relevent. At the end of the day all capitalists participate in speculation on their capital in order to maximize their profits. Who does it and why is of little consequence imo. But I would still say the Fed is the most egregious culprit though the least involved.
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 No.464855

File: 1675253592177.jpg ( 22.92 KB , 651x274 , capdows error.jpg )

>>464835
>its idea is that da system gets out of controll then you need to 'reinstall capitalism' like you do with windows 98 because that the only option it seem, because its fundamentally fucked
Reinstalling a borked OS over and over is a kind of insanity.

Could we consider that after every kondratiev wave there is an opportunity to not reinstall Capitalism but install socialism instead ?
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 No.464856

File: 1675253695618.png ( 52.94 KB , 816x456 , modes of production.png )

>>464838
I like the materialist version with modes of production better.
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 No.464879

File: 1675279268284.jpeg ( 13.35 KB , 313x161 , image_proxy.jpeg )

>>464855
>Could we consider that after every kondratiev wave there is an opportunity to not reinstall Capitalism but install socialism instead ?

the reality is infact so absurd that people still use/install various spyware in their every day lives and no one cares

nobody sued government for 24/7 tracking but everyone screams in pain hearing the word stasi

the reality is very absurd so stupid shit works in it
and most people are okay with it
most people actually think reddit is funny and sophisticated, nobody picks healthy food over garbage, people watch stupid moeshit from american military base etc

capitalism just like monarchy can just become absolutely totaly fucked
monarchy today is as cool as a brick (and even then many people dream about it)
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 No.464885

>>464879
You are too black-pilled.

The proprietary spy-ware that people have installed on their computer, i would see this like the virtual world not yet having caught up in terms of modes of production. Maybe a big part of the digital world is still in slave-society or feudal-society in terms of mode of production.

If you delete Windows/Macos and install Linux, you've reached at least the level of bourgeois revolution. I'm probably torturing the metaphor at this point and i haven't really thought it through what the socialist mode of production would be.

Plenty of people are still mad about mass surveillance and there are also people litigating against it. I just ate a salad and i had to look up what "moeshit" is.

>everyone screams in pain hearing the word stasi

I know anti-communist rhetoric is terrible, but it would be kinda funny if somebody took that stuff as an instruction manual, and unironically became a ruthlessly efficient revolutionary. I kinda want to make this into a plot for a story that makes a mockery out of capitalist ideology
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 No.464931

>>464825
Recessions can just happen naturally of course.
But current recession creating policies are anti-worker. They're a means of cratering employment rates to reduce inflation by force because the actual levers causing inflation, like increased production costs and raw materials costs will remain elevated for some time longer.
The actual causes cannot be solved in a short time. So, they're going to crush demand to drop inflating the slightest amount and call that a win.

Asset price inflation does not necessarily cause goods price inflation on its own I'd also argue.
The rich buy the most assets, the poor buy the most goods. An increase in money pool for the rich that creates asset price inflation does not necessarily trickle down to the poor and cause a goods price inflation with it.
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 No.468659

New vid from Desai and Hudson

<Economists Radhika Desai and Michael Hudson discuss Russia's economic away from the neoliberal West and integration with what it calls the "World Majority" in the Global South.


https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=cc-L7c2ISig
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 No.468828

File: 1682080006356-1.png ( 1.2 MB , 1246x726 , 150000 dream house.png )

File: 1682080006356-2.jpg ( 473.79 KB , 1504x2015 , advertise here.jpg )

>Radhika Desai and Michael Hudson are arguing that inflation is mainly caused by rent-seeking capital doing asset inflation.

This is 100% true and frankly fucking obvious. Land speculation especially causes massive, insane inflation, the entire idea is to capture rising location values (caused by labor and population growth) and drive the price up even faster by increasing scarcity. There's no reason why it should take so many years of work just to afford a home.

>They are doing an economic policy that will cause a recession, and are doing this on purpose, a bad economy will increase unemployment, and that will harm the economic interests of workers.


I'm not sure I'm with this bit though. The degree to which they purposefully cause recessions… well, I think it varies. Hudson's probably right about the Fed aiming for that iirc, though, and I guess that's what you're talking about here. It seems like right now the Fed has been trying to avoid that, but I'm not paying that close of attention. It's not just something which occurs "deliberately," though - essentially the events which cause recessions (bursting bubbles, mostly in land) can easily be caused just by the same speculative practices which cause inflation to begin with, and these practices, on their own, are profitable for those doing them. So I don't think that recessions are always a deliberate act - they can be, and they are extremely foreseeable, but a lot of the time it's just a consequence of unchecked rentseeking and an unchecked financial class. It is essentially a product of hostility against ordinary people, against workers, but it is not always as deliberate an outcome as it is a consequence of total contempt & general disregard for outcomes.
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 No.468931

>>

 No.468933

>>468931
>No tldr
>Play the first few seconds of video
>Low t guy introduces woman
>She's a professor at some canadian university
>Turn off video

Why is every professional leftist some hack that's part of the state?
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 No.468935

>>468933
Don't take this the wrong way, but you may be too uneducated to engage … or your brain may be too fried by instant-gratification media. (A good test: Are you able to convince yourself read books anymore? If the answer is no, you're kind of fucked in terms of some abilities and need to take a different approach, because your brain has been successfully hacked into being incapable of tolerating boredom.)

Stick with what works for you. Maybe that's graffiti and hooliganism to keep property values low. We've all gotta do our part.
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 No.468936

>No tldr
Fair point, here's a topical summary:
They talk about why capitalism creates crisis, about different theories of capitalism, about different stages of capitalism (industrial vs financial). They also have a critique of "western Marxism" and talk about people not understanding Marx's value theory and denying the theories of imperialism. They also dunk on neo-clasical economists for their deluded economic equilibrium theories.

>Low t guy

>woman professor
At best this is appearance over substance.
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 No.468937

whoops forgot to quote
>>468936 meant for >>468933
>>

 No.468938

>>468935
I think you're being a little to mean to this guy, asking for a description of what's in a video isn't wrong, it's a bit lazy perhaps.

I'm also confused about your theory that reading requires tolerance to boredom. Well written books are not boring.
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 No.468939

>>468935
>Projection from someone who only reads books that are reiterations of the exact same theme
>Also salty that I pointed out the obvious - that professional Marxoids are usually grifting members of the ruling state
I honestly would have preferred a text, which I can at least skim. Harder to do with some rambling interview that goes on for an hour.

Topical summaries are what you provided
Tldrs generally give the point

>appearance over substance

Fair enough critique. But there's also a hermetic principle that covers this.
>>

 No.468941

>>468939
>I honestly would have preferred a text

Check out this program
https://github.com/abb128/LiveCaptions
it converts spoken language to text, it's open source and does not include spyware.
>>

 No.468944

>>468941
>Uses an actual computer to read leftychan
Does that work on Android, anon
>>

 No.468948

>>468944
>Does that work on Android, anon
The maker of this program says that the android version comes later, there's a working prototype but it's not yet polished enough for release. It'll be released on the same github profile on a dedicated repository.

I guess check in from time to time
>>

 No.469002

>>464825
>So are recessions a type of class-war by capitalists against workers ?

Yes. The capitalist ruling class uses the central banks of nations to create recessions by creating crises in credit markets to slow the economy. This raises unemployment which reduces wages. This allows the bourgeois to purchase assets at reduced prices and continue the cycle of capital. Many small capitalists are declassed in this process, though the richest and well positioned capitalists benefit.
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 No.469011

>>469002
OK this is what happens in the economy at the level of a nation state. But what of the competing economies internationally ? Recessions mean bad economic performance. All it takes is one nation that has a state directed economy and causing recessions on purpose becomes a loosing strategy in the long term.

A state directed economy can force all the capitalists to compete on the level of production, and disallow or reduce intra-capital predatory behavior. I know that won't prevent the capitalist crisis cycle but it'll reduce the negative impact by a lot. The recessions will be shallower and less frequent. Such a state directed capitalist economy will be able to gain relative strength every time a non-state directed capitalist economy sets off a recession.
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 No.469013

>>464825
>muh corporate greed
Why do leftists never go after banks? Serious question. If the 1% own the media and the media blames inflation on everything except the 1% having a monopoly on fiat money production, even dummies like you should be able to read between the lines.
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 No.469014

>>469013
Simple answer? Leftism is about millenarian grandiosity and performative moral outrage as a means of attaining status.
>>

 No.469015

>>469013
>muh corporate greed
>Why do leftists never go after banks?
Technically banks are corporations too.

Radhika Desai and Michael Hudson can't be accused of going easy on finance capital. Seriously tho they have scathing critiques of big finance. The only type of capitalists that haven't gotten shit from them are the small to medium sized ethical-capitalism companies (for example fair-trade coffee, fairphone, etc). Those are basically harm-reduction and there is no reason to shit on that.

I'm assuming that you mean finance capital with "banks". If you mean literal banks as in the accounts that maintain fiscal ledgers, they just do book-keeping, why would you be mad at them ? They just record the tragedy that is capitalist economics. Am i missing something ?
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 No.469016

>>469015
>the accounts
the accountants
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 No.469018

>>469015
>Leftist moment
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 No.469020

>>469018
I'm guessing you disagree, can you explain it ?
>>

 No.469104

Professor Michael Hudson explains the roots of the collapsing US Banks.

https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=ImjdVxd09fo
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 No.469129

>>469018
>My response to info I don't like is ignoring said info and replying with ad hominems and snarky gotchaposts
>>

 No.469874

Why capitalism is inherently imperialist: Class struggle at the international level

https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=hhYsynUTc30
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 No.469940

>>464825
>China overtake the US economically even faster
China’s economy is in stagnation too— HK protests, the trade war and covid hurt their economy and global overreach very much.
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 No.469952

>>469015
>If you mean literal banks as in the accounts that maintain fiscal ledgers, they just do book-keeping, why would you be mad at them ?
The way banks make money is by lending out some of their depositor's money at interest.

If 10 people put $100 in a bank not all of them will want to withdraw their full $100 at the same time. You only really withdraw a fraction of your money for day to day purchases.

So instead of sitting on $1000 doing nothing the bank lends out $900 to earn some interest. This is called fractional reserve banking.

This is harmful because
>Alice puts $100 in bank A
>Bob takes out a loan of $90 and puts it in bank B
>Carol takes a load from bank B for $81 and puts it in bank C.
Now
>Alice thinks she has $100
>Bob thinks he has $90
>Carol thinks she has $81
So the banks have created $171 out of nothing. And that's what causes inflation, more money chasing the same amount of real world goods means that prices are forced to go up.

And in reality this happens at a massive scale because banks lend out millions of dollars at a time in the form of mortgages.

The plot thickens when you throw central banks into the mix because they don't even keep a reserve they just press a button and print as much money at they want. And everytime they print new money that devalues the money that already exists.
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 No.469953

>>469952
>you have a lemonade stand
>you sell 100 lemonades for $1 each
>you make $100 profit
>the central bank doubles the money supply
>you sell 100 lemonades for $2 each
>you make $200 profit
>ZOMFG RECORD PROFITTTTSS!!
>CORPORTATE GREEED!!!!
This is why you need to be careful of these headlines. They are trying to distract you from the fact that they have been fucking with the money itself.

This is relevant to leftists because the new money the central bank prints doesn't get showered over the population evenly.

It's the government and commercial banks who get the new money first. The government uses the new money to bomb children in the middle east and bribe low income voters without raising taxes. The commercial banks use the new money to "invest" in wallstreet.

From there the new money ripples out into the economy. All the cronies connected to government and wallstreet get the new money early and use it to buy hard assets like houses at pre-inflation prices. As the money peculates through the economy prices start to rise because suddenly there is more money chasing the same amount of goods.

While the cronies are getting rich from their connections, workers are forced to pay higher prices for everyday things until a year later when they get a "cost of living" raise. Worse than that, if the currency has been doubled that means all the savings in your bank account are now worth half of what they were in terms of purchasing power. They literally stole half your money without even touching your bank account.

Inflation is a wealth transfer from the workers to the 99%. That's why you should be mad about it. And don't fall for "corporate greed" bullshit. It's the banks. The bankers print money out of nothing and spend it to enrich themselves at everyone else's expense. Government lets them do it because they get a cut of the money.
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 No.469955

>>469953
>don't fall for "corporate greed" bullshit
Just to debunk this further. If the argument is that corporations are just raising prices because they're greedy.

Take 2 big stores and 1 little store
>StoreA sells 1000 gallons of milk for $1 each => $1000
>StoreB sells 1000 gallons of milk for $1 each => $1000
>StoreC sells 100 gallons of milk for $1 each => $100
Now StoreA and StoreB doubles their price for no reason because they are assholes. That means that StoreC can still turn a profit from keeping the original price.

So now it flips around
>StoreA sells 50 gallons of milk for $2 each => $100
>StoreB sells 50 gallons of milk for $2 each => $100
>StoreC sells 2000 gallons of milk for $1 each => $2000
There is literally no reason at all for StoreC to raise prices, they would have only made $200 which is significantly less than what they can earn by keeping the price low and poaching customers.

The only way to explain all 3 stores raising their prices is because the money itself has been devalued and they simply can't turn a profit at the original price anymore.
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 No.469956

>>469104
>>469874
I'm not going to have an argument with a youtube video. If you want to have a discussion you need to put it in your own words so I know you understand the concepts well enough to defend them.
>>

 No.469979

>>469940
>China’s economy is in stagnation
Economic growth projections for this years are 4.6% to 5.2%
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 No.469980

>>469952
In my mind.
bank = the maintainers of the ledger that contains bank accounts. Like accountants holding on to paper-work and computer databases.

Making profits from fractional reserve money lending or whatever, that's finance capital. The ideology of capitalism is liberalism, and in liberalism there always has to be a person at the end of every scheme, so you have to ask who gets those profits, to find out who the finance capitalists are.

>And that's what causes inflation, more money chasing the same amount of real world goods means that prices are forced to go up.

I agree with that, but we also have to look at this in more detail. If we look at the economy of the neo-liberal stage where all that money got conjured up from nothing. It ended up creating a specific type of inflation that mainly affected certain types of goods. For example prices increased for housing, military equipment, education, healthcare and basic sustenance. But other types of goods did not see much inflation.

For the recent years, we have to consider that the capitalist recession began before the pandemic, the pandemic made it worse because there was insufficient crisis preparedness. And now prices are rising to a significant extend because of war-spending and also price gouging. You would undoubtedly point out that all that money that gets spend on war comes from the money printer too. And you are not wrong about that, if they keep doing that for long enough, it'll become fascist economics with hyper-inflationary-militarism.

Another aspect that impacts prices of goods, are all the bailouts for the wall-street finance casino, basically that was money not spend on actual investment into improving the productive forces and making the economy more productive. You would not be wrong to interpret this as strike but not by workers but by capitalists. If there had been alot of investment into the productive forces it would now be cheaper to produce goods and that could have decreased prices for goods.

From the socialist perspective inflation can be solved simply by switching from money accounting to labor-time accounting. An hour will always contain 60 minutes, and unless we loose our technical base, the time it takes to produce goods will always tend downwards. Hence labor-time accounting will be slightly deflationary.
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 No.470556

File: 1688079000639.jpg ( 37.01 KB , 680x680 , 8c9.jpg )

>>469955
>The only way to explain all 3 stores raising their prices is because the money itself has been devalued

Do you not know what price gouging is? Did you fall asleep in history class when they explained that monopolies and trusts are things that can exist? I'm not sure whether you're a fed, troll, or just high as fuck on ideology. In any case I don't think you have much of anything of value to contribute to discussions of economics or politics as of right now.

I think you should start from square one and stop caring about politics for awhile. I don't know what motivated you to get on here just to lie about what the economy is, I think you need to address whatever that issue is. If you take it slow and think through it objectively I'm sure you can figure it out. Best of luck.
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 No.470604

>>469953
Inflation is not as simple as (total amount of fiat currency) = (total value of commodities in the system). It is importat to remember what exactly fiat is; it's not money the way that we use the term here. It's a token that represents debt, the labor-power within the economy that has not yet been realized. The cause of the current inflation crisis has less to do with the Fed printing too many of its tokens than it does with the rate at which new debt can be created not growing fast enough to keep up with the value of the commodities that are necessary to keep the economy functioning. New debt is slowing, because the existing labor force is already indebted to the point of insolvency. The credit that fueled the 90s boom has long since dried up, and military raids like the plundering of Iraq and the effective annihilation of the old OPEC are only ever short-term bandaids. All that can counter this inflation is to drive up the working class population at a rate that is hilariously unsustainable. Buckle up, Buttercup, because the economic future is going to be a bumpy ride.

We'll probably get a nice little reprieve locally, though, when Russia's sphere of influence completely collapses and China and the U.S./E.U. get to feast upon its remains.
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 No.470606

>>470556
Price-gouging and monopoly markets are inefficiencies in the capitalist system, not economic drivers. They are the sort of thing that gets corrected during crises. They are certainly not creating inflation.
>>469980
>From the socialist perspective inflation can be solved simply by switching from money accounting to labor-time accounting.
That would not solve inflation right now, because fiat currency is already fluctuating around the equilibrium of the value of future labor-power. Using Marx's half-formed idea of labor vouchers would address the ancaps' complaint about the Fed printing too many dollars, but that is not the actual problem. The problem is that capital is not growing at the rate that it needs to to sustain itself long-term, and, after 2008, nobody with any control over investment is buying the myth that eternal growth is possible anymore.
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 No.470988

Colonialism or sovereignty?
How the global financial system traps countries in debt

<Political economists Radhika Desai, Michael Hudson, and Ann Pettifor discuss how the international financial system traps Global South countries in debt, reinforcing a neocolonial order.


https://inv.in.projectsegfau.lt/watch?v=x13cSy8S8To

For those that would rather read
https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2023/07/11/colonialism-sovereignty-financial-system-debt/
>>

 No.470991

>>470988
>geopoliticaleconomy
maybe you should read some actual theory, nazoid? even 19th century writings would be better!

hudson especially is a fucking clown
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 No.471174

bump
>>

 No.471182

A nice animation that explains inflation in 3 minutes

https://yt.oelrichsgarcia.de/watch?v=24gfGRHpxpc

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