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 No.369405[Last 50 Posts]

While there are surely some people interested in Maoism on /leftypol/, the tendency has no noticeable presence here. From my observation Maoism has been gaining traction in socialist communities online recently. Though the ideology's influence is still relatively small, I'm optimistic that we're witnessing the earlier stages of Maoists winning leadership in the movements of the working class which will result in the reconstitution of Communist Parties guided by MLM. I started this thread to spur investigation and discussion amongst potential comrades.

Why Maoism? https://tjen-folket.no/index.php/en/2019/08/14/why-maoism-what-is-maoism/
"Maoism is developed in the first place by six great communist leaders: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Gonzalo."
"The rightist line led China back to capitalism, and dismantled the dictatorship of the proletariat into a fascist state. (…) But the cultural revolution and Mao Zedong Thought inspired millions of people all over the world, and led to the creation of a number of new communist parties on a revolutionary basis. They started people’s wars in Peru, India, the Philippines, Turkey, and Nepal."
"Gonzalo and the PCP maintain that Mao’s mass line, the line for the protracted people’s war and the line for the cultural revolution are the foremost examples of Maoism’s universal applicability, along with Maoism’s advancement of Marxism’s philosophy and economy."
"Gonzalo Thought is Maoism applied to the concrete conditions for revolution in Peru, but it is the universal conclusions in these thoughts that apply to the rest of the world."

Maoist Resources:
http://www.marx2mao.com/
http://www.massline.org/
https://www.bannedthought.net/
https://struggle-sessions.com/

https://www.reddit.com/r/catsaysmao/comments/mahczm/mega_thread_on_maoism_and_a_debunk_of_all_of_the/
https://www.reddit.com/r/catsaysmao/comments/mkupvc/actually_existing_socialism_and_what_it_means_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/PrincipallyMaoism/
>>

 No.369412

Thoughts on MIM? Thoughts on the NABPP?
>>

 No.369413

>>

 No.369426

>>369405
>/CIA/ - Glowuyghur General
>>

 No.369436

>>369412
MIM and its remnants were/are third worldist, which is a defeatist fad for petty-bourgeois clerks in the first world. it's dumb many people still conflate Maoism with TWism even though they're a minority of revisionists. as for the NABPP I don't know enough to feel strongly one way or another.

>>369426
we already had CIA general actually (thread about DSA)
>>

 No.369446

>>369426
What does MLM have to do with CIA?
>>

 No.369462

Maoism isnt real socialism
>>

 No.369464

>>369462
t. Agent Kochinski
>>

 No.369487

There is so much overlap with Maoism and Trotskyism it's not even funny. It's another movement that will join the trash bin a long with other petty bourgeois radical movements.
>>

 No.369491

>>369487
Trotskyism is when you uphold Stalin
>>

 No.369495

>>369491
I mean, you already have the PSL.

Like Trotskyism, it is highly popular in the west and very sectarian. Nothing ever gets done and every member has engaged in short term petty bourgeois radicalism.
>>

 No.369499

>>369405
Brb, waiting for you to win one (1) of your epic struggles.
>>

 No.369502

>>369491
>Left-com is when you uphold Lenin
Said the trotskyist, taken by surprise that someone would tell him there are a lot of similarities between trotsky and other ultra-left petty bourg wreckers.

So yeah, not an argument.
>>

 No.369516

>>369405
>/national chauvinism/ general
Might as well make a third positionist thread at this point. Mautism is a reactionary disease that is nothing other than peasant slave mentality wrapped neatly in a bunch of red lingo. Its legacy is that of betrayal and supporting of ethno-“socialism”.
>>

 No.369524

>>369487
Also it's funny when Maoists fuck up the answer is usually along the lines of 'it wasn't real Maoism bro'. It's very characteristic of Trotskyism.
>>

 No.369528

>>369499
We did in Nepal lol it just got betrayed
>>

 No.369534

>>369528
That's Maoism for you.
Why is almost every Maoist chairman a comfortable academe?
>>

 No.369536

>>369426
>probably a dengist who supports building Israeli settlements and selling arms to the contras
>>369441
Absolutely zero evidence, tell me what tendency you support?
>>

 No.369539

>>369536
That's the thing, you can only operate off of someone's perceived tendency to make an argument.

Maoism goes in the trash.
>>

 No.369548

>>369487
Such as
>>

 No.369549

If you’re gonna shit on Maoism, first state what you yourself believe
>>

 No.369550

>>369548
Sectarianism
>>

 No.369551

>>369549
Why so we can make a convenient intellectual profile for you? We're attacking the ideas here. This is a thread about Maoism.
>>

 No.369552

>>369539
Okay what do you believe. You mean it’s easy critique stuff when you can just pretend whatever you believe is better. Every active revolution in the world today is explicitly Maoist, Maoist inspired, or using Maoist tactics
>>

 No.369554

Mautists are the anarchists of communism
>>

 No.369555

>>369550
Yes that’s what this thread is
>>

 No.369557

>>369551
Okay, in comparison to what though? Different branches of socialism don’t exist in a vacuum
>>

 No.369558

>>369552
I don't have to, Maoism has failed every time and there are still idiots who believe in it.
>>

 No.369560

>>369557
They're entirely irrelevant when you're talking about Maoism itself. Stop coping.
>>

 No.369562

>>369555
I'm just talking about Maoist parties. Don't deflect.
>>

 No.369578

>>369558
China is the worlds second superpower lmao and like has already been said, every active revolution is explicitly Maoist or using Maoist tactics kek.

>>369560
>the history of socialism is irrelevant to the history of Maoism
Anti Maoists= complete retards
>>

 No.369587

>>369578
It's really not relevant though. If your theory is shit, then your praxis will be, too. I'm pretty sure everyone in the fourth international thought they were revolutionary, too.
>>

 No.369606

>>369578
>China is the worlds second superpower
<use the capitalist roaders that Mao was explicitly against to promote him
Mautism at work folks. Wish that we could get a dynamo to connect to Mao rolling in his mausoleum. That shit could create more power than the 3 gorges dam.
>Anti Maoists= complete retards
Dude where’s my argument?
>>

 No.369621

Revisionists
Always have to originate from some butthurt militants who were rejected by their socialist country of origin.
>>

 No.369709

>>369495
psl is not trotskyist
>>

 No.369713

>>369578
china is literally fascist according to the maoist deffinition
>>

 No.369722

The only good thing Mao ever did was killing landlords and inciting beatings of uppity teachers. All economic successes otherwise are Dengist.
>>

 No.369741

>>369464
Shut up tankie
>>

 No.369747

>>369587
Yes it really is relevant to put things in context. Materialism is literally all about context and relationships
>>

 No.369749


>>369606
Yes but how did it get to the point where it was able to do this? Mao took it from being a completely backwards country to being a world super power. This is a fact.

>>369722
>killing landlords is good but bringing back landlords is also good
Dengism everybody
>>

 No.369752

Is there a differentiation between the communists that fought with and were led by Mao versus the autists?

I only am sympathetic to Mao because the CPC was absolutely based before it took over, the Long March, Eighth Route Army, and subsequent full blown civil war are totally inspiring and a great narrative and example. I consider the Eighth Route Army and Viet Minh and Viet Cong to be the finest examples of a military force that truly served its people, and it's sad that right wing military writers grasp this more clearly than American leftists whose conception of Asians are those kids in math class they cheated off of. I totally get why leftists in the 60's were enamored by Mao, he's seriously like some protagonist straight out of a Chinese epic novel.
>>

 No.369766

>>369754
Kek yeh didn’t even notice that.
>>

 No.369803

MLM? You mean Marxism Leninism Mao Zedong Thought?
>>

 No.369806

>>369502
>there are a lot of similarities between trotsky and other ultra-left

Scuse me sonny? You seem to be on some serious shit right now to think that. For one, trotskyists are not ultra leftists. The only thing we have in common with the trots is that we hate tankies. However, our hate still extends to the trots as well.

Also:
>ultra-left petty bourg wreckers.

>Nooo, don't be a actual far leftists, be a shitty pseudo leftist liberal like me
>>

 No.369876

>>369806
Far leftism is a meme for Marxists.
Leftcoms are genuinely useless and stupid.
>>

 No.369879

You can tell the difference between dengists and Maoists because not one dengists has come here with any facts it’s just
>mautism has failed
Why tho?
>it’s just a failure
They don’t really have any idea what they are on about besides bending over for Xis Zion dick
>>

 No.369890

>>369879
Gonzalo is a perfect example of mautist failure.
>>

 No.369895

>>369876
>meme for Marxists

Buddy, pal, friend. You ain't a Marxist. Far leftism isn't just a meme, it's true and good leftism. Unlike your liberal ass who refused to move from their regressive position.
>>

 No.369905

ML = stagnant banana republics
Maoism = Anally roaded by crypto capitalists
Juche = Virile lower stage Posadism
>>

 No.369906

>>369905
Trots = Liberal Newspaper Merchants
>>

 No.369910

>>369900
I think you mean neither. The ultra left are what you aren't: uncompromising. We don't falter to capitalist influence and bourgeoisie interests unlike you fakecoms.

All that you have created has fallen horrendously into a delusional mess that you try and fail again to perpetuate.
>>

 No.369930

>>369900
>>369876
For years, your ilk has continued the lie of " being reformist" and "cooperate with the capitalists". You excused your liberal antics as "not rushing things" and "looking out for the worker", and stopped us every single step of the way.

And so now, we live on a quickly deteriorating neoliberal late stage capitalist earth, where the conditions are quickly becoming worse than any other point in history. We have even "out-gilded" the gilded age.

You have delayed the work long enough.
>>

 No.369936

>>369910
And ultras have created nothing except perfecting the rate at which you can split.
>>

 No.369941

>abominael guzman
>great communist leader
Socialism is when you mistreat the peasantry so much they literally take up arms against you
>>

 No.369955

>>369936
>And ultras have created nothing except perfecting the rate at which you can split

Oh, very rich coming from tankies, who have created oppressive capitalist states that eventually either fell to neoliberalism, or never progressed.

At least the ultra left and the anarchists have the excuse of never actually have been properly tried and tested.
But you tankies? You basically had almost a century of being tested and tried, as you basically eradicated any actual leftists opposition in your path.

In truth, you failed the moment you started, and numerous. And then you failed for a final time when you fully fell before neoliberalism.
All the states you have created have either called or haven't progressed (or even regressed).
>>

 No.369960

>>369936
Honestly, I'd rather say we haven't gotten around to doing anything yet than having to admit I'm outdated.
>>

 No.369961

>>369941
Kek name a country where this hasn’t happened lmao. Reactionaries exist everywhere. Also this completely igrnores the historical context of Latin America in the late 80s/ early 90s, which came at the end of 5 or 6 decades of even moderate social democrats being slaughtered by US backed reactionaries
>>

 No.369962

>>369905
The only good thing trots produced were Lenni Brenner
>>

 No.369985

File: 1626030148660.png ( 68.11 KB , 220x249 , Pedro_Castillo.png )

>>369961
>Kek name a country where this hasn’t happened lmao
Vietnam.

>Reactionaries

uygha the Shining Path had plenty of support in the countryside till they squandered it all with their autistic fanaticism and mistreatment of the people they supposedly defended. You have to go back
>>

 No.369999

File: 1626030549132.mp4 ( 378.02 KB , 480x360 , the eternal armchair.mp4 )

>>369955
>>369960
Mandatory reply
>>

 No.370859

File: 1626049403225.mp4 ( 934.89 KB , 480x480 , fttIXr5ggEnxkRpM.mp4 )


I'm just here to post the Gonzalo fancam. Maoism is the future <3
>>

 No.371328

With declining material conditions and rising reaction by neofeudal wealthy, the Maoist rising is unstoppable.

Praise Mao!
>>

 No.371347

>>369999
lol, perfect quads for a perfect reply.
>>

 No.371365

>>371328
Maoism guerrilla and subversive tactics are awesome, in that regard.
>>

 No.371616

>>369446
Let’s go through a few
>rejecting almost every socialist state that ever existed because “they were mean to my favorite red great man”
>irrelevant military tactics that amount to sitting in a jungle for 20 years then getting arrested
>obsession with one specific guy who “advanced the thought”, collapses when that guys dies or gets thrown in jail
>copes hard about “muh soviet social-imperialism” and often demonizes the soviets as worse than the americans
>often emerge as splitter groups supported by the cia as a way to undermine the communist movements in their respective countries
>dont actually read theory, and yet call everyone else “revisionist”
>have no actual support in the countries they claim to be “waging people’s war” in
>>

 No.371619

>>369446
Let’s go through a few
>rejecting almost every socialist state that ever existed because “they were mean to my favorite red great man”
>irrelevant military tactics that amount to sitting in a jungle for 20 years then getting arrested
>obsession with one specific guy who “advanced the thought”, collapses when that guys dies or gets thrown in jail
>copes hard about “muh soviet social-imperialism” and often demonizes the soviets as worse than the americans
>often emerge as splitter groups supported by the cia as a way to undermine the communist movements in their respective countries
>dont actually read theory, and yet call everyone else “revisionist”
>have no actual support in the countries they claim to be “waging people’s war” in
>>

 No.371974

>>369749]
Mao was not a Maoist you absolute dipshit lmfao
>>

 No.371976

>>369879
>no successful revolutions
>infinite warfare that fails to attract enough people
>sectarian on top of all of this
cope lmfao
>>

 No.371999

<"At its height in mid-1992, it was believed that Shining Path had between 3,000 and 4,000 armed cadres and 50,000 supporters in various civilian support groups and political cadres…"
>When All The Evils Come Together, Pablo G. Dreyfus. page 378

<50,000/492,507 (Supporters/Ayacucho Department Population in 1993)=0.10 or 10% of the population of Ayacucho Department Population, 50,000/22,693,443 (Supporters/Total Peruvian Census in 1993)=0.002 or 0.2% of the total Peruvian population in that year, remember that this was their peak, 1992/1993

>https://www.inei.gob.pe/estadisticas/indice-tematico/population/ "Población total, censada y omitida, según año censal" "Población censada, según departamento y año censal" Microsoft Excel or https://sheet.zoho.com/sheet/excelviewer

<Officially more than 50% urbanized in 1964, at the beginning of the armed struggle in 1980 urbanization in Peru was at 65% and by 2000, the end of the major conflict, it had become 73%, by 2020 it was 78%, for reference, a country like Germany is 77% urbanized

>https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS?locations=PE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS?locations=DE
<Chinese Civil War was fought in a country that was 80~90% percent non-urbanized "In 1949, around 80 per cent of the Chinese population is rural. Lacking capital to invest in modern machinery the government decides organising human labour is key to China’s development and begins introducing a system of communes in 1958 to harness the rural labour force to stimulate agricultural and industrial productivity. Each commune is made up of smaller farm collectives and consists of 4,000–5,000 households, while larger communes could encompass up to 20,000 households.", even in 1980 only about 20% of the Chinese population was urbanized, Gonzalo attempted to graft this onto a country with nearly opposite urban:unurban ratios disastrously, and as you can see, during the Peruvian conflict, almost 10% of the population fled to the cities, meaning that about 1/3 of the supposed base left them dry
>https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10225706.2018.1476256 Table 1 https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/news/china/article/3139331/ccp-100year-anniversary/index.html

<Gonzalo openly admitted to and expressed no real criticism of the Lucanamarca massacre

>"In the face of reactionary military actions… we responded with a devastating action: Lucanamarca. Neither they nor we have forgotten it, to be sure, because they got an answer that they didn’t imagine possible. More than 80 were annihilated, that is the truth. And we say openly that there were excesses, as was analyzed in 1983. But everything in life has two aspects. Our task was to deal a devastating blow in order to put them in check, to make them understand that it was not going to be so easy. On some occasions, like that one, it was the Central Leadership itself that planned the action and gave instructions. That’s how it was. In that case, the principal thing is that we dealt them a devastating blow, and we checked them and they understood that they were dealing with a different kind of people’s fighters, that we weren’t the same as those they had fought before. This is what they understood. The excesses are the negative aspect… If we were to give the masses a lot of restrictions, requirements and prohibitions, it would mean that deep down we didn’t want the waters to overflow. And what we needed was for the waters to overflow, to let the flood rage, because we know that when a river floods its banks it causes devastation, but then it returns to its riverbed…. [T]he main point was to make them understand that we were a hard nut to crack, and that we were ready for anything, anything." https://web.archive.org/web/20071108165711/http://www.blythe.org/peru-pcp/docs_en/interv.htm
<Watch and read these to educate yourself, the above is demonstrative of commandism
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms0a7lA_l0Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhzifV9AjAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibtw0okgU3w Lucanamarca: Memorias de Nuestro Pueblo https://lum.cultura.pe/cdi/sites/default/files/rb/pdf/Lucanamarca%20Memorias%20de%20nuestro%20pueblo__(p1-150).PDF

<Shining Path was largely comprised of white and mestizo members, Central Commitee was largely very light skinned, most cadre were most likely petit-bourgeois mixed or white college kids, not indigenous people, who were largely relegated to farming and didn't have access to upper education, race and class are more or less one and the same in Latin America

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hFiLlV7nI https://peru.com/actualidad/mi-ciudad/procuraduria-embarga-oficina-martha-huatay-abogada-sendero-luminoso-noticia-91351
<"The data set compiled by the Turth Commission shows that a minority of the 921 inmates had an indigenous mother tongue (29 percent in the Shining Path, 14 percent in the MRTA) (CVR 2003a, statistical annex, dataset dec_pen_est) although the percentage of Sendero's inmates with an indigenous first language was higher than in the general population (29 percent vs. 19 percent)."
>Civil Wars and their Consequences, The Peruvian Armed Conflict in Comparative Perspective, Livia Isabella Schubinger & David Sulmont. page 60
<Regarding the language or language with which they learned to speak in their childhood, 63.6% of people aged 5 and over stated that it was with Quechua, 35.6% Spanish, 0.1% the Aymara, among the main ones. At the provincial level, in Vilcas Huamán 91.7%, Cangallo 90.6%, Víctor Fajardo 87.1%, Huanca Sancos 84.0%, Sucre 82.1% and La Mar 78.6%, the majority learned to speak in his childhood with Quechua. In Lucanas 47.6%, Paucar del Sara Sara 43.9%, Huamanga 43.6% and Parinacochas 43.5% with Spanish. Responding to the census question on ethnic self-identification, applied to the population over 12 years of age, 81.2% recognize themselves as Quechua, 13.1% as mestizo, 2.0% as white and 0.8% as black, brown, zambo, mulatto / Afro-Peruvian or Afro-descendant people.
>http://censo2017.inei.gob.pe/censos-2017-departamento-de-ayacucho-cuenta-con-616-176-habitantes/

<Alberto Fujimori ran on a right-populist and "tough on terrorism" campaign in 1990, you can see how from there on out both the president and congress are completely filled with almost pure neoliberals, even during the "Pink Tide," and just recently, a mild socdem, Pedro Castillo, only won by 0.26% against Fujimori's daughter, who is essentially just a political clone

Peru also has rather high election turnout at 82.27%, placing above liberal countries like Sweden, Australia or Denmark where you'd expect such shit, 97% of the population voted in 2000, so the "Voting no, People's War Yes" evidently didn't really get through to the population, demonstrating how they weren't really into the whole movement to begin with
>https://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/170/ https://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/170/
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Peruvian_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Peruvian_general_election

<I implore you to either look up anything vaguely related to the conflict or to come over here yourself, as plane tickets are cheap, and attempt to ask people (like the man in the videos) about the conflict, and I guarantee you that 99.99% of the time, we will have something negative to say about Sendero


>the CVR was flawed

Alright, fair point, but do you have a better source? Would love to see it (This is a garbage argument anyway because the CVR itself cites reports and has videos available online, actual testimonies, as opposed to the musings and conjecture of random European and American children

>"It is crucial to remember that survivors of the violence made decisions about what they would and would not share with the CVR."

I am shocked, that's unfathomable, I never knew that poor people would make decisions based upon how much they would benefit materially off of their choices. By the way, no one is denying that they did or did not have initial support in some places of Peru, it would be expected that any movement that promises the moon and seems roughly competent initially will succeed, but given that they failed overall and Gonzalo will die in the jail he has been in since 1992, what are you going to do? Force the peasants to confess how they opted for a movement that seemed good in the moment given their situation but ended up fucking up (something they could not control). This goes into the realm of unfalsifiability and making assumptions, when all you're getting out of them is what they said.
>"b-b-but if you don't like my pet group in a country I couldn't point out that means you must love Fujimori"
No lmfao, but cool attempt at deflection and tu quoque, it doesn't work on non-schizos though

It's been said by others, and I think many would be inclined to agree, that the modern day "Maoist" movement, i.e. adherents to the school of "Marxism-Leninism-Maoism", which preaches the cultural revolution, and so forth (we will study their characteristics in a moment), is the reflection of the Trotskyist movement of the past; dogmatic and revisionist at the same time, preaching both economism and terrorism, flaunting revolutionary slogans while stubbornly – at times proudly – submitting to subordination by bourgeois interests and ideology. Whereas the Trotskyists of the past decried "Neither the USA, nor Soviet Union!" the "Maoists" of today protest, "Neither the USA, nor China!"

"Maoism" vs Mao-Zedong-Thought: More Than Semantics

To begin with, I want to briefly dispel confusion that often arises over this subject. It isn't necessary to dwell here, but this is a distinction which many comrades mistake as mere semantics, a difference over name, and not a definite difference within the ideological makeup of these two movements.

Mao-Zedong-Thought (MZT) is the official ideology of the Communist Party of China (CPC). It is in main a system of study, upholding such principles as "No investigation, no right to speak" and "Seek truth from facts". It remains the official ideology of the CPC along with Marxism-Leninism. Adherents to MZT refer to themselves merely as Marxist-Leninists, or MLs.

Maoism, or Marxism-Leninism-Maoism (MLM) is an ideology which was first synthesized by the Peruvian revolutionary/terrorist Abimael Guzmán, also called Chairman Gonzalo, in the latter part of the 1900s. It upholds such principles as the universality of the "Protracted People's War" (PPW), and the "Cultural Revolution"; however, Maoists – especially those leading figures in Maoist thought, Chairman Gonzalo, Joma Sison, and so forth – insist in their adherence not only to Maoism, but to Mao-Zedong-Thought as an integral part of Maoism.

It is also important to note that, while Maoists do adhere to these principles as a general rule, they do not always support the people who thought of them: not every Maoist is fond of Gonzalo, for instance; I will touch on that in a minute. Whether or not this is the case, though, it is still important to make a distinction between Maoists who do this, and MLs who adhere to Mao-Zedong-Thought.

What is 'Social-Revolutionary Primitiveness?'

Lenin described revolutionary primitiveness briefly but accurate in What is to be Done?:

We have noted that the entire student youth of the period was absorbed in Marxism. Of course, these students were not only, or even not so much, interested in Marxism as a theory; they were interested in it as an answer to the question, “What is to be done?”, as a call to take the field against the enemy. These new warriors marched to battle with astonishingly primitive equipment and training. In a vast number of cases they had almost no equipment and absolutely no training. They marched to war like peasants from the plough, armed only with clubs. A students’ circle establishes contacts with workers and sets to work, without any connection with the old members of the movement, without any connection with study circles in other districts, or even in other parts of the same city, without any organisation of the various divisions of revolutionary work, without any systematic plan of activity covering any length of time.

True, from the historical point of view, the primitiveness of equipment was not only inevitable at first, but even legitimate as one of the conditions for the wide recruiting of fighters, but as soon as serious war operations began, the defects in our fighting organisations made themselves felt to an ever-increasing degree. The government, at first thrown into confusion and committing a number of blunders, very soon adapted itself to the new conditions of the struggle and managed to deploy well its perfectly equipped detachments of agents provocateurs, spies, and gendarmes. Raids became so frequent, affected such a vast number of people, and cleared out the local study circles so thoroughly that the masses of the workers lost literally all their leaders, the movement assumed an amazingly sporadic character, and it became utterly impossible to establish continuity and coherence in the work. The terrible dispersion of the local leaders; the fortuitous character of the study circle memberships; the lack of training in, and the narrow outlook on, theoretical, political, and organisational questions were all the inevitable result of the conditions described above. Things have reached such a pass that in several places the workers, because of our lack of self-restraint and the inability to maintain secrecy, begin to lose faith in the intellectuals and to avoid them; the intellectuals, they say, are much too careless and cause police raids!

We will see that these very errors, this exact primitiveness, has plagued nearly every Maoist movement in existence, and doomed it to fail. Rather astonishingly, we can see this exact mistake being made without shame by the Maoist Communist Party of the Philippines (CPP) and New People's Army (NPA), together the CPP-NPA. Let's investigate their statement, Great Achievements of the CPP in 50 Years of Waging Revolution:

The NPA is the main weapon of the people for defeating the enemy and winning the revolution. Without it, the people have nothing. It carries out three integral tasks: revolutionary armed struggle, agrarian revolution and mass base building…

Under the direction of the CPP, the broad united front has twice succeeded in overthrowing the reactionary regime. First, it succeeded in fighting, undermining and overthrowing the Marcos fascist dictatorship from 1972 to 1986 and in ousting the corrupt Estrada regime in 2001. Even without as yet deploying units of the people army in the cities aside from armed city partisans, the broad masses of the people rose up to show their hatred for the ruling clique and subsequently the reactionary armed forces refused to follow orders to attack the people but decided to withdraw support from the hated ruler.

What we have here is the blatant admission not only that they see the armed forces of the party, and not the party itself, as the "main weapon of the people for winning the revolution", but also the admission that they are waging a struggle without the support of the proletariat. That the "units in the cities" are not "yet deployed aside from armed partisans", but the "broad masses of people" have risen up – does this not mean that the CPP-NPA, these Maoists, are completely alienated from the movement they represent? Either the proletariat has risen up, in which case the "city units" should be as well, or the proletariat has not risen up, in which case – why has the party?

In essence, they have declared themselves merely a spontaneous peasant uprising, and by their own analysis have rendered their armed struggle mere terrorism.

Let us take Lenin in Revolutionary Adventurism:

We are not repeating the terrorists’ mistakes and are not diverting attention from work among the masses, the Socialist-Revolutionaries assure us, and at the same time enthusiastically recommend to the Party acts such as Balmashov’s assassination of Sipyagin, although everyone knows and sees perfectly well that this act was in no way connected with the masses and, moreover, could not have been by reason of the very way in which it was carried out—that the persons who committed this terrorist act neither counted on nor hoped for any definite action or support on the part of the masses. In their naïveté, the Socialist-Revolutionaries do not realise that their predilection for terrorism is causally most intimately linked with the fact that, from the very outset, they have always kept, and still keep, aloof from the working-class movement, without even attempting to become a party of the revolutionary class which is waging its class struggle. Over-ardent protestations very often lead one to doubt and suspect the worth of whatever it is that requires such strong seasoning. Do not these protestations weary them?

I think this describes our Maoist friends most perfectly. Why such strong protestations about the "rising masses" when your "city units" are "not yet deployed"? Why such enthusiastic proclamations about the armed struggle, about captured weaponry, about assassinated policemen, when the proletariat are not only passive, but even weary, and when it is clear that these actions are the will of a few petit-bourgeois intellectuals who think they know what's best for the working class, and not the actions of the working class itself?

There is distinct historical precedent for this. To understand our modern "comrades", we must explore the case of the Socialist-Revolutionaries, the left party in Russia that opposed the Bolsheviks on the grounds that the Bolsheviks were too passive, and too conciliatory towards capitalism and the bourgeoisie.

The Socialist-Revolutionaries (SRs), were, in a sense, the original Maoist movement. True, they predate even Mao himself. But, much like Mao first learned his political consciousness from the likes of Kropotkin and other anarchist theory before he made the change to sincere revolutionary marxism, the SRs found their roots in the peasant Narodniki of the century prior, a rural anarchist movement which in particular highlighted the terrorist struggle as a means to liberation.

What reason do we have for studying the SRs? Because their class-interests and class-composition, the very essence of every political movement, is identical to that of the modern "Maoist" movement. Citing again Revolutionary Adventurism by Lenin:

The revolutionary movement continues to grow with amazing rapidity—and “our trends” are ripening. On the other hand, trends expressing only the traditional instability of views held by the intermediate and indefinite sections of the intelligentsia try to substitute noisy declarations for rapprochement with definite classes, declarations which are all the noisier, the louder the thunder of events. “At least we make an infernal noise”—such is the slogan of many revolutionarily minded individuals who have been caught up in the maelstrom of events and who have neither theoretical principles nor social roots.

It is to these “noisy” trends that the “Socialist-Revolutionaries,” whose physiognomy is emerging more and more clearly, also belong. And it is high time for the proletariat to have a better look at this physiognomy, and form a clear idea of the real nature of these people, who seek the proletariat’s friendship all the more persistently, the more palpable it becomes to them that they cannot exist as a separate trend without close ties with the truly revolutionary class of society.

We will see it very clear, if not undeniable, that the "Maoists" of today belong to this particular group of petit-bourgeois intellectuals, who are aware their existence lies entirely on their culpability to the growing revolutionary movement, and who try in vain to attach themselves to this movement and, as a result, appeal to the only class of small-proprietors who's interests align with the petit-bourgeoisie's: the peasantry. ​

Maoism's Socialist-Revolutionary Take on Peasantry

Characteristic of these petit-bourgeois intellectuals, from the Socialist-Revolutionaries to the CPP-NPA (Philippines), is their intentional marring of the distinction between peasant and proletarian. Through this slight of hand, they then attempt, as petit-bourgeois – a class which historically shares many of the same characteristics, interests, and even social relations as the peasantry – to disguise themselves as this mangled "proletarian-peasant", which exists only as a mask used to subvert the interests of the working movement to petit-bourgeois liberalism, to anarchy in production.

The Social-Democrats [Bolsheviks, in this case] maintained that the proletariat and the peasantry were distinct classes in capitalist (or semi-feudal, semi-capitalist) society; that the peasantry is a class of petty proprietors that can “strike together” against the landlords and the autocracy, “on the same side of the barricades” with the proletariat in the bourgeois revolution, and that in this revolution it can, in certain cases, march in “alliance” with the proletariat, while remaining quite a separate class of capitalist society. The Socialist-Revolutionaries denied this. The main idea in their programme was not that an “alliance of the forces” of the proletariat and the peasantry was necessary, but that there was no class gulf between them, that no class distinction should be drawn between them, and that the Social-Democratic idea concerning the petty-bourgeois character of the peasantry, as distinct from the proletariat, is utterly false.

On what grounds do we have for claiming the Maoists of today repeat this mistake?

Since the "Maoist" movement is not one distinct movement, but several, oftentimes opposing movements, it can be difficult to pinpoint exactly what Maoists believe. As per dialectics, it is important we take things not only as they currently exist, i.e. their form; we need to analyze their essence, the origins of the movement, the trends it exhibits, and where its developing towards. As such, we will study first an example of this Socialist-Revolutionary mistake being repeated by none other than Chairman Gonzalo, the ideological founder of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism as the one who "synthesized" Mao's teachings with those of Marx and Lenin.

Something important to note: not all Maoists support the Shining Path in its actions, per se, seeing as so many of them are quite literally impossible to defend. Room must be made for the usual pseudo-denunciations. But the modern Maoist movement unmistakably bears the stamp of Gonzalo's influence as the founder of this movement, in particular due to his role as the founder of the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement (a sort of Maoist 4th International), which states in its founding decleration:

The parties and organisations of our Movement and RIM as a whole have been engaged in revolutionary struggle against imperialism and reaction. Most important has been the advanced experience of the People's War led by the Communist Party of Peru which has succeeded in mobilising the masses in their millions, sweeping aside the state in many parts of the country and establishing the power of the workers and peasants in these areas.

Bearing in mind the unmistakable ideological, if not material, influence Gonzalo had over the RIM, it is important to study the viewpoint from which the Maoists originate:

EL DIARIO: How do the workers and peasants participate in the People's Guerrilla Army?

CHAIRMAN GONZALO: The peasantry, especially the poor peasants, are the main participants, as fighters and commanders at different levels in the People's Guerrilla Army. The workers participate in the same ways, although the percentage of workers at this time is insufficient.source

In just two sentences Gonzalo himself has revealed the bare truth: that the Shining Path is primarily a peasant movement, and not a worker movement. That such a movement would be the result of a petit-bourgeois intellectual, the founder of a Maoist debate club that eventually abandoned the university and took up arms, is no surprise. Further, Gonzalo damns himself horribly when he says:

In the economic base, under the New Power we are establishing new relations of production. A concrete example of this is how we apply the land policy, utilizing collective work, and the organization of social life according to a new reality, with a joint dictatorship where for the first time workers, peasants and progressives rule–understanding this to mean those who want to transform this country by the only means possible–people's war.

I say he damns himself horribly because, as it would turn out, Lenin attacked these exact words almost a century in advance:

To counter Marx’s doctrine that there is only one really revolutionary class in modern society, the Socialist-Revolutionaries advance the trinity: “the intelligentsia, the proletariat, and the peasantry,” thereby revealing a hope less confusion of concepts.

It is this very mistake that Gonzalo, as well as his party, the Shining Path – and with them, all other "Maoist" parties to date, from the CPP-NPA in the Philippines to the original Maoist Red Guards even – have repeated without hesitation or reflection.

What is the error? It is that, due to their nature as petit-bourgeois intellectuals, who have no bearing or relation to the actual working class movement, they find sympathy for their individualistic posturing, their self-interested pseudo-socialism, only in the peasant class which historically provides the basis for petit-bourgeois ideology. The petit-bourgeoisie are, historically speaking, urban peasants, and the majority of peasantry are the rural petit-bourgeoisie.

Maoists cannot bear a society wherein the proletariat is truly given supremacy. They need to hide their subversion of the dictatorship of the proletariat, their subordination of the proletariat to petit-bourgeois interests, by disguising the petit-bourgeoisie as peasants, and the peasants as proletarians. We see a similar trick played by CPP-NPA's "Joma" Sison, when he says:

In the national united front, the proletariat and the Party rely mainly on the basic alliance of the workers and peasants, to win over the urban petty bourgeoisie.

Note, it is not the peasants who must rely on the alliance for guidance, no; it is the proletarians and their party who must rely mainly on it. And to do what? To win over the urban petty bourgeoisie, in other words, to appeal exactly to the interests of petit-bourgeois intellectuals like Sison himself!

Protracted People's War: Maoism and the 'Universal Applicability of Violence'

We are approaching now the biggest topic in regards to this matter. The one tactic/principle which finds itself remunerated in all Maoist movements, to such an extent that it may be the defining characteristic of Maoism, is the Protracted People's War (PPW) as a universally applicable method of struggle.

What is the Protracted People's War? This question will prove elusive. For Mao, it meant something very specific: the people's war was the method of combining guerilla struggle, done by willing partisans and supporters of the Communist Party, and conventional struggle, done by the PLA. The tactic was useful because, in China, where the CPC had garnered overwhelming support among rural peasants, and had its urban based members massacred by the Goumindang, it allowed the proletarian armies to seemingly disappear into the countryside, where they could reorganize before attempting to mount offensives.

Why did this strategy do so well in China? There are a couple reasons, in main:

It was a defensive tactic, prompted at first by the massacre of CPC by Goumindang, and then prompted by the Japanese invasion, and then prompted once more by another attempt at massacre by the Goumindang. It relied on the enemy making mistakes, acting out of retaliation, inflicting terror and thus turning the population against it, etc. What modern Maoists too often fail to understand is that this was not formulated as a universal solution to the seizure of state power.

China at the time, owing to its lack of development and huge landscape, had no fast transportation between the various cities. This meant that it was possible to isolate the cities so that they could not receive outside support, and then coordinate with the communists already in the cities. The favorable conditions enjoyed by Chinese revolutionaries at the time were very specific, and very hard to come by. It is arguable that no such society exists today where the cities can be cut off in such a way by guerilla armies, owing to the existence of high-speed travel and long-distance instant communication.

The CPC already had a large base of support when it picked up the armed struggle. It was not a mere clique of revolutionaries, who decided that the armed struggle was ready to be taken up and who promptly picked up their rifles and headed to the countryside. The party spent years of slow, steady preperation, building the consciousness of the masses, and collaborating with the Goumindang before the massacre and subsequent fleeing to the countryside, where they already enjoyed a sympathetic population.

The CPC, under People's War, practiced guerilla warfare, not terrorism. In cases where the political consciousness of the masses was not yet high enough to wage an armed campaign, they conducted a political struggle in order to educate the masses on why this was necessary. But they did not press the masses into armed struggle before they were ready to commit to it:

All work done for the masses must start from their needs and not from the desire of any individual, however well-intentioned. It often happens that objectively the masses need a certain change, but subjectively they are not yet conscious of the need, not yet willing or determined to make the change. In such cases, we should wait patiently. We should not make the change until, through our work, most of the masses have become conscious of the need and are willing and determined to carry it out. Otherwise we shall isolate ourselves from the masses. Unless they are conscious and willing, any kind of work that requires their participation will turn out to be a mere formality and will fail.source

How, then, was the "protracted people's war" applied in Maoist movements since, and how well does it conform to Mao's own definition of just what this war should entail?

CHAIRMAN GONZALO: With regard to violence we start from the principle established by Chairman Mao Tsetung: violence, that is the need for revolutionary violence, is a universal law with no exception. Revolutionary violence is what allows us to resolve fundamental contradictions by means of an army, through people's war… The way we see this question is that when Chairman Mao Tsetung established the theory of people's war and put it into practice, he provided the proletariat with its military line, with a military theory and practice that is universally valid and therefore applicable everywhere in accordance with the concrete conditions.

This is blatantly untrue from a Marxist standpoint. It was Lenin who did best to trample the phrasemongering peddled by petit-bourgeois intellectuals and show it for what it really was: blient subservience to failure. As he states in The Importance Of Gold Now And After The Complete Victory Of Socialism:

True revolutionaries will perish (not that they will be defeated from outside, but that their work will suffer internal collapse) only if they abandon their sober outlook and take it into their heads that the “great, victorious, world” revolution can and must solve all problems in a revolutionary manner under all circumstances and in all spheres of action. If they do this, their doom is certain.

What grounds are there for assuming that the “great, victorious, world” revolution can and must employ only revolutionary methods? There are none at all. The assumption is a pure fallacy; this can be proved by purely theoretical propositions if we stick to Marxism. The experience of our revolution also shows that it is a fallacy… We must try to do as few foolish things as possible, and rectify those that are done as quickly as possible, and we must, as soberly as we can, estimate which problems can be solved by revolutionary methods at any given time and which cannot. From the point of view of our practical experience the Brest peace was an example of action that was not revolutionary at all; it was reformist, and even worse, because it was a retreat. The proof that our tactics in concluding the Brest peace were correct is now so complete, so obvious to all and generally admitted, that there is no need to say any more about it.

Violence is not a universally applicable principle, which solves all things. And, though I've taken care not to allow this analysis to devolve into the usual incessant reminders of the horrible atrocities committed by the Shining Path under Gonzalo, and by the CPP-NPA in the Philippines, and so forth, I think it's important to note the very clearly admirative tone Gonzalo takes towards violence, as if its some sort of key he's found to all political problems. He shows this especially clearly in this following:

We see the problem of war this way: war has two aspects, destructive and constructive. Construction is the principal aspect. Not to see it this way undermines the revolution–weakens it.

How could such a blatantly untrue be argued? That war is principally constructive – says who? What does war construct, aside from means of destruction?

War is loathed by the masses, both revolutionary and reactionary. That does not mean the masses cannot be moved to warfare, to civil war and revolution, or that the masses always reject war as a solution: but war is destructive, it has a destructive effect on social relations, leading them to revert to primitive forms, and to attempt to whitewash war as "constructive" is to demonstrate a serious disconnect between the petit-bourgeois intellectual Gonzalo and the actual proletarian masses; it's to display a view only able to be held by a petit-bourgeois who stands to gain from war.

Again, it's hard to elaborate on the theoretical positions of Maoists since there is so little thereotical substance to their movement, owing to the fact that it is mostly a movement of phrase-mongering, of sloganeering, and intellectuals flaunting obscure books by Chinese-American professors at any curious onlookers and shrieking at them about revisionism.

The Fruits of Maoism

Having investigated the theoretical positions of Maoists, we now must investigate where these theoretical positions inevitably lead. Dialectics holds that time is, after all, always moving, and thus, it is inevitable for every movement to pass through its various stages of development. And history has shown, without fail, that the Maoist movement has been thoroughly unsuccessful in every regard at realizing the supremacy of the proletariat, that the Maoist movement has devolved in every instance to, at the best, a group of irrelevant intellectuals, and at worst, a terrorist movement kicking and screaming against destruction.

Gonzalo and his Shining Path ended in spectacular failure. Whereas Gonzalo screeched blue the validity of his conclusion on Mao's theories, he would eventaully find himself in prison by the turn of the 2000s, with the Shining Path existing only as various copycat groups using the old name. Among other terrorist attacks, the Tarata Bombing demonstrated the Shining Path's clear inability to reconcile the interests of the petit-bourgeoisie and peasantry with the truly revolutionary class, the proletariat. Similarly, the Lucanamarca attack showed the Shining Path was not the party of the peasantry, but a party intending to subvert it. Guzman not only confessed to the attack, but defended it.

In the face of reactionary military actions… we responded with a devastating action: Lucanamarca. Neither they nor we have forgotten it, to be sure, because they got an answer that they didn't imagine possible. More than 80 were annihilated, that is the truth. the principal thing is that we dealt them a devastating blow, and we checked them and they understood that they were dealing with a different kind of people's fighters, that we weren't the same as those they had fought before. This is what they understood. The excesses are the negative aspect… If we were to give the masses a lot of restrictions, requirements and prohibitions, it would mean that deep down we didn't want the waters to overflow. And what we needed was for the waters to overflow, to let the flood rage, because we know that when a river floods its banks it causes devastation, but then it returns to its riverbed.

There is a clear and distinct lack of not only remorse, but even self-criticism; he shows complete absence of competence, of ability to self-reflect, a complete lack of ability to grasp that the action he committed not only did not advance the revolutionary cause, but landed him in prison, and turned the masses against him. This is a common trend: in the Philippines, the CPP-NPA has been fighting an armed struggle for 50 years, and are not an inch closer to power than they were then; in fact, they're arguably further from power than they were then. Their leader is a petit-bourgeois intellectual, Joma Sison, who fled in the 90s and has since been directing the (overwhelmingly student youth) members of his "party" to commit acts of terror on the Philippine population, which echo the Shining Path in brutality (rapes, murdering children, decapitations, etc.). It's an attitude tracable back to the red guards, and even before them, to the Socialist-Revolutionaries of the Russian Revolution.

In short, "Maoism" has failed to be a practical tool for the proletariat in any country where it's sprouted up, and has on the contrary served imperialism to quite some extent, often pitting self-described Maoists on the side of international capital and against their own countries' proletariats. They are the Kautskys, the Trotskys, of today's era. It is clear to the class-conscious masses of the world that Maoism is little more than a new word for the same old clique of tired intellectuals, furiously and adamantly attempting to sell capitalism as socialism, to sell imperialism as sovereignty, and to sell petit-bourgeois as proletarians.

I have no clue if this post is of any quality. It's mostly rambling. For an idea of why I wrote it, see this. Either way, I think it's useful we remain vigilant of petit-bourgeois wearing the cloak of socialism and attempting to bastardize it with philosophical sophistry in place of theory; and terroristic, Social-Revolutionary primitiveness in place of concentrated revolutionary activity.
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>>367953
>>366659
My beloved samefagging friend, I'm sure you'll run like a bitch again after throwing out baseless accusations because there is no way to discuss the subject without admitting that you're wrong
For the angloparlants
Vladimiro Montesinos send to the terrorist Abimael Guzman a solicitation of aid of his "militants" to skew the vote in Keiko Fujimori's favor
Montesinos1 and Montesinos1b : "March 20, 2016
Dear countryman and friend:
Sending a cordial hug wishing this with excellent health and good spirits as it characterizes Arequipa in situations of adversity. As you can see, it is very likely that you understand the prospect that KF (Keiko Fujimori) will win the elections in the first place this next April 10th. There is the probability of being elected in the second round next May. If this is so, we would have you and my person, jointly the historical alternative to culminate our task of completing peace in the country. Whose fact is feasible, if she wins then we would stop the conversation. For this reason I ask you to send a message to your wife Miriam with my greetings and suggesting militant's support the election of KF with their vote, a big hug."
Montesinos2: "April 13, 2016
Dear countryman and friend:
Having concluded the first electoral round with the known result, I request your response for the second round to be held on June 5th. With the usual appreciation and greetings to your wife and partner Miriam.
Guzman1: "April 13, 2016 Dear fellow countryman and friend
I hope to reply as soon as possible
Yours truly"
Guzman2: "April 11, 2016 Dear Countryman and Friend
Unfortunately, on this occasion we will not be able to support you, we hope it will be possible in the future, yours truly"

<"But Guzman and others were accused of being saboteurs of the Agrarian Reform Law, and the pro-Soviet Communist newspaper accused them of being CIA agents".

>Shining Path's Stalin and Trotsky page 176

<Oscar Ramirez Duran (Comrade Feliciano, who assumed command after capture of Gonzalo, said the following in 2003:

"The people of our country, I, like many other people, made the decision to change that state of affairs to make a new country to make Peru a better one, but it happens that we assume a wrong ideology, the nefarious Gonzalo thought that led us to commit Many mistakes and in the end led us to a dead end. Many lessons have to be learned from these two decades, one of them in my view is that war is better avoided as a philosopher said, war is a monster of killing among men, that many times from being a means becomes an end, and if you can sometimes express heroic acts, the most extreme passions of human beings will also be expressed and war ends up dehumanizing us, it is For all that, what when a chain of hate and revenge is established, because hate generates more hate, revenge more revenge, and in the war that dynamics is produced, the war itself drives that, and when such a chain occurs, after It is difficult to break, I think that is why it is better to avoid wars, I would also like to talk to you about democracy, after many reflections I have also come to the conclusion that democracy, despite all its problems and limitations, is the best system Coexistence between human beings is better than any totalitarianism, because totalitarianism only brings intolerance and restricts the freedom of human beings, we have had in the 20th century, great lessons from totalitarian systems that led to negative situations for humanity, I think That this experience will have to bring out the positive that serves for the future, but in my opinion, democracy is always better than any totalitarian dictatorship, I want to take the occasion to invoke the state and society and all of you to have consideration and understanding with all the political prisoners. A democratic society must express its moral and judicial political superiority by giving the opportunity to rehabilitate and rejoin political prisoners and prisoners in general in society, but what is happening, life imprisonment or the sentences that have been given and what They are going to be given from 30 to 35 years. It is practically a death to all political prisoners, and that cannot be, that is to continue that chain of revenge and hatred that we must banish from our society. I also want to invoke the comrades who are still up in arms, so that they seek to establish a dialogue with the government in order to reach an understanding. I extend the invocation to the state, to the Peruvian government, to facilitate this dialogue in such a way that a solution can be found to that problem that still afflicts our country. Those people who are still there, are Peruvians like us, who also have a cause, and most of the remaining ones are peasants, therefore for the sake of national reconciliation, it should be seen to solve this problem in a way that is not military, finally , to reiterate once again, my deepest condolences to all the people who were affected by the internal war, and especially to those who had lost beings who were left, I finally thank the commission of truth and reconciliation for this opportunity for allowing me to reach all of you, thank you very much."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUM9HWik3qk

<Called Gonzalo a "psychopath" and said that "He was always a coward and a traitor"

>Archive of Caretas http://web.archive.org/web/20050929222233/http://www.caretas.com.pe/Main.asp?T=3082&idE=640&idS=228

<Hundreds of videos of testimonies from Peruvian people (yes, critiquing both sides, CVR or TRC are still flawed, arguments containing the fallacy of the flawed dilemma (black or white, if it isn't x it is y, "if you are not with me, then you are my enemy," direction brain, etc.) are not real arguments, you're just an infantile coper

>http://www.lum.cultura.pe/cdi/materiales/video Literally hundreds of videos of testimonies

<Guzman/Comrade Gonzalo surrendered (Captured September 12th, 1992, this video is from December 3rd, 1993, Ramirez/Comrade Feliciano, Flores/Comrade Artemio has wanted to surrender since at the very least 2011 (though Artemio was captured in February 12 of 2012)

>Gonzalo Surrender https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKQkCBvSQVo
>Feliciano More or less denouncing the group https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUM9HWik3qk
>https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/08/artemio-peru-shining-path-commander
>for the retards who believe in JFK/moon landing conspiracy theories here is a video of the cacheton, older, no doubt, with the same voice, denying that he knew about Tarata, but this is flawed reasoning for a couple of reasons
1. He tells them to go through the schizo sloganeering that is the PCP-SL's books, which the police aren't going to do, they aren't really interested in knowing the ins and outs of theory about winning over the national bourgeoisie, the only "theory" they would ever potentially care about in these kangaroo courts are just about their military strategy, which sucked dick and consisted of trying to accelerate by bombing the city where the majority of the population lived as well as causing constant blackouts and power outages, disrupting food supply lines (something that might work if an overwhelming majority of the population lived rurally, as they did in China during the 1920s-1950 and even onwards, I explained all of this in detail above))
2. His lawyer is probably feeding him some lines because at this point all he can do is hope to get slightly more lenient sentences so that he isn't locked in a closet (though his friendship with Montesinos probably takes care of any discomforts though
3. Artemio bluntly admits that they did Tarata and Lucanamarca in his interview
4. It's a kangaroo court at this point, that's all you're going to get when you try to overthrow the state, fail, and get captured

<Analysis from DoS/NSA claiming that even if Guzman were to "end" Sendero Luminoso, it would boost his popularity ratings so much that we would assuredly win the next elections (in line with despite massive corruption, drug smuggling, embezzlement, the "Fujimorist" parties have had a majority ever since the 90s and socdem reformists getting shafted, though the "People's War" has all but dissipated and becomes more of a distant memory as opposed to the supposed "revitalization" that I hear American Maoists talking about, you'd be surprised to find out that a good deal of Peruvians are hostile to "socialism," which is surprising and disappointing given that most people, even in the capital, live in abject or "pretty shit" poverty

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB96/930730%20Reports%20of%20Negotiations%20with%20Guzman.pdf

Still waiting on any response, gringo of shit, maybe if you cope hard enough it'll make the pain go away lolol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJG3_KLCU_c Video of Gonzalo denying having had "anything to do" with Tarata, but saying that they "furiously criticized" the action and that it was a "monstrous error for those who commit it"
If you line this up with Artemio admitting that they (Original Senderos) made the mistake of doing so, so even if Abimael somehow didn't plan something major like that (because Lucanamarca was ordered/done with the knowledge/consent of the committee), it was still a Sendero attack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK30pfe0zhw
>>

 No.372039

>>371999
>copy pasting Reddit posts pretending they are your own effort posts
>>

 No.372140

File: 1626101363411.png ( 10.23 KB , 1040x63 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>372039
>404:Argument not detected
cope uyghur
>>

 No.372155

>>372140
You need to go back there
>>

 No.372157

>>371999
>>372004
>>372140
can you tell me what the fuck these walls of texts are and why you're linking and screenshotting posts from another thread
>>

 No.372184

>>372178
>cites Reddit
>thinks this counts as literacy
Reddit is not a reliable source
>>

 No.372198

>>372184
>Reddit sucks1!!1, he says, believing basket-weaving forums to be the apex of literature because it's where he spends most of his time
uyghur these are just people's online opinions, if it isn't a news report or a book, it's not a source to begin with, it's a redirection to a page that itself uses sources, care to make an argument instead though?
>>

 No.372204

>>372178
I want to know the context of the paragraphs that now take up half of the thread so I'm illiterate yes
>>

 No.372205

>>372198
>it’s just online people’s opinions
Precisely, so elaborate your own opinions instead of just copy pasting from Reddit of all places, why would I bother to read it if you can’t be bothered to write it?
>>

 No.372241

>>372039
>>372205
>>372184
The OP literally links entire subreddits, not even posts, calm down young man
>>

 No.372244

>>372204 (me)
when one of your posts both seems to be in reply to people from another thread and you post a screenshot of you referring to the content of those posts in another thread I can only be confused
>>

 No.372261

>>372234
>>372241
It isn’t presented as an argument though is it, it’s just posting general resources, which is fine
>>

 No.372283

>>372205
I do not know how re-posting works in other places but I always read and reread anything I link or source before hand, this still isn't an argument though, you don't assess any of the claims, you can only give a vegetable reaction to the source post
>>

 No.372324

>>372283
You don’t assess any claims, you simply link a wall of text from Reddit
>>

 No.372718

>>371347
>>369999
Alright, you want to defend your shitty outdated mistake of the past with memes? So be it.
>>

 No.372759

Is it just me or the arguments against MLM are the same liberals use to shit on ML?
>he killed muh innocent peasants muh baby boiling etc
All fabrications and appeal to emotions ignoring all context
>>

 No.372768

>>372759
Yup exactly. Its hilarious how they don't recognise this as well its like
>the holodomor? You STUPID LIB HOW COULD YOU BELIEVE THAT BULLSHIT
>yes, the shining path literally killed innocent peasants for fun, the lib news told me, so it must be true
>>

 No.372778

>>372768
Except the Ukrainian famine was perpetrated by petty bourgeois kulaks whereas that massacre was perpetrated by petty bourgeois intellectuals who thought they were connected with the indigenous masses.

Shit comparison. But what can you expect from Maoists (liberals)?
>>

 No.372786

>>372778
Engles was a petty bourgeois intellectual
>>

 No.372789

>>372778
>maoists are ruthless murderers
>also maoists are liberals
make your mind up you people are so boring
>>

 No.372790

>>372786
Who was connected to the workers, unlike Gonzalo.
>>

 No.372797

>>372789
Liberals aren't?
>>

 No.372814

>>372789
>also maoists are liberals
>maoists are ruthless murderers

The middle east would probably disagree with your implication of liberals not being murderers.
>>

 No.372820

>>372790
The shining path had about 7% of the peasantry as direct supporters, which is comparable to the RSDLP in Russia in 1917
>>

 No.372835

Anti Maoist posters are just glowies
>>

 No.372840

>>372825
Holy shit, you actually fucking think liberals aren't fucking killers.

You are fucking hilarious.
>>

 No.372852

>>372836
You said they didn’t have the support of the workers, that isn’t true, they had the support of lots of peasant workers
>>

 No.372857

>>372846
>that last post didn't imply that in anyway though. you just have black/white brain.

Yes it fucking did you retard. We got that shit right here.
>Everyone would disagree not just the middle east.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU FUCKING IMPLIED.
>>

 No.372863

>>372859
>Learn to fucking read motherfucker.


>Everyone would disagree not just the middle east.



Wait wait wait wait. Fuck.
>>

 No.373074

>>372324
Cry about it faggot
>>372759
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms0a7lA_l0Y
Direct testimony embedded from the two older gentlemen talking about how there were the corpses of dead pregnant women (senoras gestantes) and infants (creaturas)
>>372820
This is false
<"At its height in mid-1992, it was believed that Shining Path had between 3,000 and 4,000 armed cadres and 50,000 supporters in various civilian support groups and political cadres…"
>When All The Evils Come Together, Pablo G. Dreyfus. page 378

<50,000/492,507 (Supporters/Ayacucho Department Population in 1993)=0.10 or 10% of the population of Ayacucho Department Population, 50,000/22,693,443 (Supporters/Total Peruvian Census in 1993)=0.002 or 0.2% of the total Peruvian population in that year, remember that this was their peak, 1992/1993

>https://www.inei.gob.pe/estadisticas/indice-tematico/population/ "Población total, censada y omitida, según año censal" "Población censada, según departamento y año censal" Microsoft Excel or https://sheet.zoho.com/sheet/excelviewer
You cannot do basic math
>>372768
nice strawman

<Gonzalo openly admitted to and expressed no real criticism of the Lucanamarca massacre

>"In the face of reactionary military actions… we responded with a devastating action: Lucanamarca. Neither they nor we have forgotten it, to be sure, because they got an answer that they didn’t imagine possible. More than 80 were annihilated, that is the truth. And we say openly that there were excesses, as was analyzed in 1983. But everything in life has two aspects. Our task was to deal a devastating blow in order to put them in check, to make them understand that it was not going to be so easy. On some occasions, like that one, it was the Central Leadership itself that planned the action and gave instructions. That’s how it was. In that case, the principal thing is that we dealt them a devastating blow, and we checked them and they understood that they were dealing with a different kind of people’s fighters, that we weren’t the same as those they had fought before. This is what they understood. The excesses are the negative aspect… If we were to give the masses a lot of restrictions, requirements and prohibitions, it would mean that deep down we didn’t want the waters to overflow. And what we needed was for the waters to overflow, to let the flood rage, because we know that when a river floods its banks it causes devastation, but then it returns to its riverbed…. [T]he main point was to make them understand that we were a hard nut to crack, and that we were ready for anything, anything." https://web.archive.org/web/20071108165711/http://www.blythe.org/peru-pcp/docs_en/interv.htm
<Watch and read these to educate yourself, the above is demonstrative of commandism
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms0a7lA_l0Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhzifV9AjAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibtw0okgU3w Lucanamarca: Memorias de Nuestro Pueblo https://lum.cultura.pe/cdi/sites/default/files/rb/pdf/Lucanamarca%20Memorias%20de%20nuestro%20pueblo__(p1-150).PDF
<Shining Path was largely comprised of white and mestizo members, Central Commitee was largely very light skinned, most cadre were most likely petit-bourgeois mixed or white college kids, not indigenous people, who were largely relegated to farming and didn't have access to upper education, race and class are more or less one and the same in Latin America
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hFiLlV7nI https://peru.com/actualidad/mi-ciudad/procuraduria-embarga-oficina-martha-huatay-abogada-sendero-luminoso-noticia-91351
<"The data set compiled by the Turth Commission shows that a minority of the 921 inmates had an indigenous mother tongue (29 percent in the Shining Path, 14 percent in the MRTA) (CVR 2003a, statistical annex, dataset dec_pen_est) although the percentage of Sendero's inmates with an indigenous first language was higher than in the general population (29 percent vs. 19 percent)."
>Civil Wars and their Consequences, The Peruvian Armed Conflict in Comparative Perspective, Livia Isabella Schubinger & David Sulmont. page 60
<Regarding the language or language with which they learned to speak in their childhood, 63.6% of people aged 5 and over stated that it was with Quechua, 35.6% Spanish, 0.1% the Aymara, among the main ones. At the provincial level, in Vilcas Huamán 91.7%, Cangallo 90.6%, Víctor Fajardo 87.1%, Huanca Sancos 84.0%, Sucre 82.1% and La Mar 78.6%, the majority learned to speak in his childhood with Quechua. In Lucanas 47.6%, Paucar del Sara Sara 43.9%, Huamanga 43.6% and Parinacochas 43.5% with Spanish. Responding to the census question on ethnic self-identification, applied to the population over 12 years of age, 81.2% recognize themselves as Quechua, 13.1% as mestizo, 2.0% as white and 0.8% as black, brown, zambo, mulatto / Afro-Peruvian or Afro-descendant people.
>http://censo2017.inei.gob.pe/censos-2017-departamento-de-ayacucho-cuenta-con-616-176-habitantes/

Artemio admittded it was an excess
You're full of shit gringo, you have no sources and talk out of your ass csm
>>

 No.373093

>>372852
>peasant workers, I mean, worker peasants (huh?)
That's the problem with Maoism, they don't make any distinction between the peasants and workers.

Can your parasitical movement just die already?
>>

 No.373120

>>372852
Peasants=/=Proletarian you retard, read moar
>>

 No.373129

>>372835
Justification being?
>>

 No.373134

>>

 No.373209

>>373134
That anon is absolutely right, peasants are not proles, they are petit-bourgeois and Maoism's goal (according to both Gonzalo and Sison, authorities on the subject), are to primarily have a peasants rebellion to appeal to the national bourgeoisie
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJG3_KLCU_c Video of Gonzalo denying that he (the person) had "nothing to do with Tarata" and that at the time of the bombing he had to win the "national bourgeoisie" and that there was a "furious criticism" done of Tarata(This is silly, as we have the video of Artemio admitting that there were excesses at Lucanamarca and Tarata (admitting that the latter was done by Sendero Luminoso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7hnMy4t3s4

<EL DIARIO: How do the workers and peasants participate in the People's Guerrilla Army?

CHAIRMAN GONZALO: The peasantry, especially the poor peasants, are the main participants, as fighters and commanders at different levels in the People's Guerrilla Army. The workers participate in the same ways, although the percentage of workers at this time is insufficient.
>redsun.org/pcp_doc/pcp_0788.htm

<"In the national united front, the proletariat and the Party rely mainly on the basic alliance of the workers and peasants, to win over the urban petty bourgeoisie."

>https://josemariasison.org/philippine-history-classes-and-crisis-and-united-front-a-review/?fbclid=IwAR1mp_K8QvjKlsxcM1iv3J6aqKF3sSGcl0RrP4Xd35K9VIL1ey84avQtQIY

<"To counter Marx’s doctrine that there is only one really revolutionary class in modern society, the Socialist-Revolutionaries advance the trinity: “the intelligentsia, the proletariat, and the peasantry,” thereby revealing a hope less confusion of concepts."

"We are not repeating the terrorists’ mistakes and are not diverting attention from work among the masses, the Socialist-Revolutionaries assure us, and at the same time enthusiastically recommend to the Party acts such as Balmashov’s assassination of Sipyagin, although everyone knows and sees perfectly well that this act was in no way connected with the masses and, moreover, could not have been by reason of the very way in which it was carried out—that the persons who committed this terrorist act neither counted on nor hoped for any definite action or support on the part of the masses. In their naïveté, the Socialist-Revolutionaries do not realize that their predilection for terrorism is causally most intimately linked with the fact that, from the very outset, they have always kept, and still keep, aloof from the working-class movement, without even attempting to become a party of the revolutionary class which is waging its class struggle. Over-ardent protestations very often lead one to doubt and suspect the worth of whatever it is that requires such strong seasoning. Do not these protestations weary them?”
>https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1902/sep/01.htm Revolutionary Adventurism by Lenin

>>>+1 kek for (You), read you losers
>>

 No.373805

>>369441
Nepali gonzaloists did overthrow the Nepali monarchy though
>>

 No.378234

>>374082
>rightist MLs serving the CPC who today have complete control of the state.
Their control is being actively resisted by full on ideological MLMs, many ex guerillas are not fans of the leash put on the revolution by the CPN, Hindutva fanatic India or "Revisionist" China
>>

 No.379469

File: 1626355655666.jpg ( 7.45 KB , 300x168 , download.jpg )

>>

 No.382405

As a world-systems ML who flirts with Maoism, I have a good-faith question that I hope an experienced MLM can answer. In the development of MLM, it seems that there have emerged multiple tendencies within MLM that clearly differ on historical and ideological matters, despite all going under the banner of "Marxism-Leninism-Maoism". For instance, I noticed that the CPP, despite afaik being an MLM org, absolutely condemned Gonzalo in their response to Red Guards Austin. It was my understanding that Gonzalo had synthesized MLM, so either that claim is false, or such a significant ideological split has occurred within MLM that they reject their founding theoretician. I am unsure as to which is corrected, particularly as there seems to be conflict between pro-Gonzalo MLMs and anti-Gonzalo MLMs as to how much of a role he played in the tendency's development. Don't get me wrong, I get the major split between MTW and MLM, I'm just unclear as to what the conflict is within MLM itself, as I haven't really seen much effort made to differentiate the different MLM tendencies and their various conflicts with each other. If any anon could explain, and tell me what the root of the split is between the CPP line and the PCP line, as well as any other splits I am not aware of, it would be much appreciated.
>>

 No.386553

Can someone post the "join American Maoism" meme? I've been looking for it but I can't find it.
>>

 No.386820

>>382405
there is indeed a split in the maoist camp between peru-aligned
>pcp itself
>parties in brasil, mexico, ecuador, france
>organizations in germany, switzerland, sweden, norway, usa, galicia
>tkp/ml sometimes signing peru-aligned documents but unclear on their alignment
and philippine-aligned groups
>cpp-npa-ndfp itself
>parties in italy, afghanistan, canada, maybe others i missed
>got cpi(maoist) to sign a statement but unclear on their alignment too
and then there's the bloody nepalese who cucked out to a bourgeois parliament, boo. but anyway, the number one contention is "universality of people's war", which gonzalo proposed, counter to which sison argued that people's war is only applied in peripheral nations and that parties in the imperial core must use only legal accumulation of forces to prepare for a future revolt. (unclear is how sison thinks one can prepare for illegal violence while being completely legal and nonviolent.)
>>

 No.386845

File: 1626657659524.png ( 812.53 KB , 2888x1588 , american maoism.png )

>>

 No.386867

>>386845
Thank you bro
>>

 No.386875

I noticed almost all criticism of maoism on this site is just uneducated assumptions, misinterpretations, and made up strawmen. Where does so much blind hate even come from?
>>

 No.386879

>>386875
Sino-Soviet split
>>

 No.386886

>>386875
there are many brezhnevite, dengite, and hoxhaite pretenders on this board who refer to themselves dishonestly by the grand word "marxist-leninist" while betraying what real mls such as stalin and mao stood for. they are afraid that their activist circles and peaceful marches will be unhappily disrupted by an armed struggle and thus do everything to belittle and mock those who call for it. as far as they are concerned, world socialist revolution is when china gets more trading partners.
>>

 No.387267

File: 1626677196166.jpg ( 5.73 KB , 300x300 , dl.jpg )

>>386875
>Literally half a century with nothing to show for it
cope harder lmfao, come back in ten or twenty years and see how they're in the same position, except it'll be worse because then it'll be slightly more sad yet just as funny that they've been "waging war" for several decades yet are further from victory then they ever have been
>>386886
>great man theory w/ dogmatic characterististics
picrel related
>>

 No.387341

>>386875
It’s glowies and people who do sports team internet politics
>>

 No.387347

>>386845
>come be a dengist
>we’ve got
>arming the contras
>arming duterte to kill communists
>arming the mujihadeen against the soviets
>backing unita in Angola
>building Israel
>building Saudi Arabia
>ugly ass Caleb Maupin
>>

 No.387426

>>387347
Not a dengist, keep crying though faggot, nothing you said will make your irrelevant pet groups win
>>

 No.387439

>>387426
Okay, so what do you ascribe to?
>>

 No.387448

>>387426
You can discuss how much you want on whether China is socialist or not, but their foreign policy (even in Mao times) has objectively been utter shit.
>>

 No.387450

>>387448
That said MLM is cringe and useless for the 21st century.
>>

 No.387451

File: 1626693316819.jpg ( 7.45 KB , 300x168 , download.jpg )

>>

 No.387455

>>387347
This whitoid doesn't know that UNITA was funded by the PRC since 1966
>>

 No.387461

>>386875
Honestly it feels like people on this site are spooked by maoism in the same way liberals are spooked by socialism in general.
>>

 No.387464

>>387455
Kek yes.. and when did the conflict with the MPLA start…
>>

 No.387465

>>387461
That’s exactly it, it’s literally the same crits anyone would make about Stalin but transposed onto somehow only Maoism. It’s hilarious
>>

 No.387466

>>387461
Its not about being spooked its that this shit simply does not work.
It's 60 years they're doing this in the Philippines and they've barely mustered 6000 people.
>>

 No.387467

>>387451
What’s cope about it, I assume what you believe as a revolutionary strategy has been more effective, let’s compare and contrast
>>

 No.387468

>>387466
Compared to which brand of socialism which has done what
>>

 No.387472

>>387468
Classic ML literally won in Russia and Mongolia and Cuba and Yugoslavia and brought Italian PCI from 3% at the ballot box in 1924 to fielding 250000 armed men in 1945.
>>

 No.387481

>>387472
Classic ML won in Russia in 1917 then crashed and burned throughout the 70s. Not to discredit it entirely, but I was brought about through very specific conditions. Cuba was not classic ML in the same sense in any way. Usually you post more educated than this, I know you know about foco theory. Italian communists of that period got CIAd to fuck. They could have done with a more militarised party.
>>

 No.387482

>>387472
but "classic ml" doesn't exist today. china, cuba, vietnam, korea are hardly good examples of what you mean. the only tendency presently waging armed struggle against imperialism is maoism and that is the basic reason why i support it. meanwhile my country's "classic ml" party is just red-painted socdems with even less chance of winning a seat than the actual socdems have a chance of winning a government.
>>

 No.387486

>>387481
100% agree with the PCI part (Secchia line should have prevailed).
Foco stuff seems very much Latino spice Leninism to me and does not provide IMHO any theoretical advancement.

>>387482
This is indeed a big problem,but it's either a Dengism problem or a boomer leadership one (both in certain cases).
>>

 No.387487

>>387486
That said, it's unacceptable for a party to be operating since the 60s and to have only 6000 people to show (the bulk of which is not even peasants or proles but radicalized students).
And this is in the BETTER case i can come up with,cause any other trial at Maoism ended up WAY worse.
>>

 No.387501

>>387467
ML has actually been able to get past the revolution stage, (unlike MLM, which at best has been at war since the late 60s and failed to attract proles, just petit bourgeois students for a petit bourgeois adventurist movement) kill yourself you fat burger fuck
>>387482
>some white faggot shitting on korea and cuba for not being dogmatists in their positions
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>

 No.387503

File: 1626697425654.jpg ( 7.45 KB , 300x168 , download.jpg )

>>

 No.387523

>>387486
it can't possibly be either of those, this party was already turning browdery in the 1940s and the rest has just been logical progression
>>387501
>YER WHIIIIIIIIITE
nobody asked
>>

 No.387533

>>387523
>nobody asked
God Anglos are so fucking annoying, they cannot even comprehend their own language through reading
>>

 No.387534

>>387533
cuba and korea don't get immunity from criticism because the people there are browner or yellower than myself, and i'd hoped this would be obvious to a leftypoler if not to a twitter liberal.
>>

 No.387538

>>387533
>Anglo Anglo Anglo
>white white white
When did leftypol become tumblr? Idpolyps begone
>>

 No.387540

>>387538
nooo you don't get it brooo. we are based mongoloids defeating the perfidious anglo menace, this is way cooler and more based than those dumb liberals who hate white people for liberal reasons
>>

 No.387547

>>387538
>>387538
politically illiterate and irrelevant, none of you will ever do anything of use in your lives, I'm going to skullfuck you
>>387540
cannot into dialectics, yet again
>>

 No.387549

>>387547
you're a very unpleasant and rude one to talk to. i wish we could have discussed the topic further but you seem to have closed off that path. happy trails sucker
>>

 No.387551

File: 1626700051300.gif ( 450.41 KB , 220x220 , cope.gif )

>>387549
Shut the fuck up pussy, everything I said was 100% true and you fucking know it
>>

 No.387560

>>387547
>political literacy is when you make comments about people’s skin colour
Kek dengoids really are the bottom of the barrel in terms of leftypol posters.
>>

 No.387564

>>387549
It’s funny how the FSLN flag poster was making good posts, we were having a good constructive conversation, then this fucking faggot comes in with his idpol and the thread degenerates. Glow shit
>>

 No.387565

>>387564
Much agreed comrade, however the growing movement against the racialist falsification of history, despite increasingly desperate denial from the pseudo-left Pabloite revisionist renegades, is striking fear into the hearts of the global imperialist monopoly bourgeoisie. Global capitalism, now more than 80 years into its terminal death agony, can only be transcended through the fulfillment of the objective historical revolutionary role of the proletariat. The emancipation of the proletariat must be the act of the proletariat itself - under the sole leadership, of course, of the one true world party of socialist revolution, the International Committee of the Fourth International. In their steadfast struggle against all forms of pseudo-left vulgarizations of revolutionary Marxism, David North and the SEP have won the Rank and File proletariat to a genuine Marxist program. The contradictions of global imperialism threaten a Third World War fought with nuclear weapons, and therefore the fate of not just the working class, but the human species itself, depends on resolutely exposing the Pabloites, Grantites, Cliffites, Healyites, Hansenites, Wohlforthites, Mandelites, Steinerites, and all other forms of counter-revolutionary opportunism blocking the path to left unity and planetary proletarian revolution. We urge all workers, youth, and intellectuals stirred by this call to action to unite in the Rank and File Committees and to contact the International Committee today.
>>

 No.387566

>>387564
Thanks anon for the appreciation
>>

 No.387569

>>387551
noooo! you caught meeee! all along i was waiting for someone to expose my terrible secret. i've knowingly been a maoist even though it's obviously wrong, just for the sake of my perverted disgusting whiteness and anglitude!
>>387564
lol, agreed. disappointing
>>

 No.387673

>>387569
Hey, I'm back again, I'd like to try to actually bring this conversation back to something actually constructive after that dickhead came in and shat it up.

Now, as I said in that previous post, I pretty regularly flirt with Maoism, you might even say I'm a follower of MZT. On Practice and On Contradiction are two of my favorite pieces of theory, and I really love Maoist concepts like the mass line and new democracy. That being said, while I can commend Maoism and agree with many of its concepts, I really can't get my head around Gonzalo-style MLM, most notably the universality of PPW. As somebody who's very much a believer in world-systems theory, I do think Sison is making a fair point in not believing the PPW can be universally applied. I can't really see a wealthy labor aristocracy like in Lichtenstein or San Marino leading a PPW as we see in the Philippines or in India. Now, that doesn't mean I necessarily believe in strict legalism in cases where PPW isn't possible, I do think that first-world communist orgs should still work to actively build their revolutionary strength regardless of the law, but I still can't say I agree with the Peruvian stance of universal PPW out of the two. I'm also rather skeptical of the Peruvian side on a historical level, as I think the experience of the Shining Path showed deep flaws in such a purist MLM theory. This isn't to say I'm going to be one of those disingenuous people who thinks Gonzalo was a baby-boiling psychopath, but I do still think there were significant problems within the Shining Path's strategy that led to their failure. I can't help but feel that, had the Shining Path not attacked so many other leftist orgs and had they focused on building more long-standing popular bases rather than being so militaristically-focused, they may have done far better and even brought about a successful revolution.

Now, to be completely and totally fair, I am not too well versed in Maoism besides reading MZT itself. If you think anything I've said here is unfair or inaccurate, please do say so and we can try to sort it out. I understand that MLM rejects three-worlds theory and by extension world-systems theory, so while I stand by world-systems and different societies requiring different revolutionary strategies, I can see where a rejection of that theory could lead to a different theoretical conclusion on the universality of given praxis. That being said, I am genuinely interested in what you think makes Peruvian-style MLM and the universality of PPW the best possible principles for an international communist revolution.
>>

 No.387714

>>387569
cry about it
>>

 No.387759

>>387673
>I can't really see a wealthy labor aristocracy like in Lichtenstein or San Marino leading a PPW as we see in the Philippines or in India.
you'd be hard pressed to find a pro-gonzalo maoist who denies outright the existence of a labor aristocracy. not to say i haven't heard this but it's exceedingly rare. but a labor aristocracy is scarcely ever consisting of the entirety of a given country's workers. only countries like liechtenstein and san marino could maybe fit the bill, but what odd examples to use. i think there is a real proletariat in countries such as the us, uk, canada, france, germany… even if this proletariat is underorganized and subject to the leadership of labor-aristocratic socdem parties, all the more reason maoists can't ignore them.
>I can't help but feel that, had the Shining Path not attacked so many other leftist orgs and had they focused on building more long-standing popular bases rather than being so militaristically-focused, they may have done far better and even brought about a successful revolution.
i hear this criticism primarily from socdems (for obvious reasons) and from apra fans and mrta fans "because they attacked my fave, the one i like, how dare they!". but surely that's how bolsheviks must have seemed when they were attacking mensheviks, esers, anarchists…. "fellow leftists", that is. as for a less militaristic, more populist, winning strategy for socialism in peru, there's always peru libre, but it remains to be seen just how socialist they are.
>I understand that MLM rejects three-worlds theory
only by its dengist formulation. mao's own three worlds perspective is accepted by mlms from what i read. more generally, a distinction of strategy between imperial nations and colonized nations is needed, but universality of ppw isn't a specific strategic prescription (see: antimaoists claiming that ppw is impossible in any country that doesn't have jungles or mountains), it's a strategic framework within which the details of each struggle are elaborated. the basic idea is that the forces for struggle must themselves be built through struggle. starting from isolated clashes with state forces, building into guerrilla warfare, then further building into regular warfare and the conquest of power on a national scale.
>I am genuinely interested in what you think makes Peruvian-style MLM and the universality of PPW the best possible principles for an international communist revolution.
https://struggle-sessions.com/2019/06/06/defend-and-apply-the-universality-of-protracted-peoples-war/ this essay will be of some use i hope. i can elaborate further.
>>

 No.387787

>>387784
<i post a struggle sessions article
<you reply with brg criticizing tribune
>Tjen Folket is a joke
how do you conflate three different websites? could you not find one article criticizing struggle sessions directly?
>>

 No.387793

File: 1626709559261.png ( 23.47 KB , 609x109 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>

 No.387796

>>387787
Tjen Folket is Tribute of the People
>>

 No.387803

>>387759
I think these are all valid points, and I'm glad to see that we can have some common ground on points of labor aristocracy and three-worlds theory. I'll have to look into more on how PPW can manifest differently for different countries and different struggles while still maintaining its revolutionary core, and I'll check out the essay you linked. Thanks anon!
>>

 No.387805

>>387784
>>387787
Oh boy, are we gonna get a glimpse of the CPP-PCP rivalry right here on leftypol?
>>

 No.387806

>>387793
fair
>>387796
not true
>>387803
based! come back to this thread anytime palestanon
>>

 No.387810

schizo conspiracies about Tribune, Struggle Sessions and Tjen Folket being the same clique ITT
>>

 No.388278

>>387673
The Universality of Peoples War doesn't mean you can just start an armed conflict anywhere. It means that the principles which apply to a "peoples war" an be used anywhere. "Protracted" being the operative word. Mao recognised that the independence struggles of various nations had gone on for sometimes several hundreds of years, he understood that this meant the liberatory ideology has to account the fact that there will be losses, and there will be wins. Other to this, it is certain that no matter what, the people are already in a war, which will wage regardless of them even actively taken part. The class war, or the peoples war. The only way it can be over come is through struggle and the only way to learn how to struggle is to struggle. The only way to truly see capitalism and gain the experience of it for what it is is pushing against it. Obviously however, you can't immediately do this, you have to build, bit by bit, consolidating certain areas, using these as a spring board and an example in other areas. This could done in a network over several factories or neighbourhoods, it doesn't matter really, the principles Mao lays out are essentially tactical lessons
>>

 No.388322

Does anyone know where I can find softsubbed encodes of the Axis of War trilogy?
>>

 No.388327

>>388322
For those unaware, it's a trilogy of films dramatizing the events of the Chinese Civil War. It received a UK DVD release in 2010, which may be the source of the hardsubbed versions that exist on youtube. I've noticed an HDTV rip (or maybe Bluray source?) of the first film exists on China's CCTV6 youtube channel, and someone (presumably with 1905 access) has already ripped the other two, but they're in 720p. I haven't been able to find a DVD ISO or decent English softsubbed encodes yet; I have no idea where to look for better sources either. Any help would be appreciated.

UK DVD hardsubbed versions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhtwVWBXA7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRr_Vq1uHM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un2ydWcYiPg

CCTV6 / 1905 youtube rips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7d10-xyrzQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU3vFn0u4E0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdec4WS8bQI

1905 listings..?
https://www.1905.com/mdb/film/59629/
https://www.1905.com/mdb/film/46773/
https://www.1905.com/mdb/film/58535/
>>

 No.388566

>>387482
Honestly, this is my same perspective, what's the point in embracing a tendency that dose not exist anymore (Classic Marxism-Leninism collapsed with the USSR and it's Eastern Bloc allies between 1989-1991), when the only tendency waging armed revolution against Capitalism in the 21st century is Marxism-Leninism-Maoism (The Protracted Peoples Wars in India. the Philippines, Turkey, and Peru), while the so-called "Marxist-Leninists" today consists of the Dengist (The "Left-wing" of Fascism) regimes in China, Vietnam, and Laos, and the fake "Communist Parties" around the world that are essentially Social Democrats (the "Left-wing" of Liberalism), with the only true holdouts of Classic Marxism-Leninism being Cuba and the DPRK, both of which are clearly living on borrowed time (Cuba is vulnerable to a Liberal Uprising and the DPRK is vulnerable to a Dengist Coup). This is coming from someone who believes the Sino-Soviet split was a mistake and who fiercely supports the Pre-Gorbachev USSR (despite its obvious Revisionist tendencies, the USSR maintained a Centrally Planned Socialist economy until Perestroika and was a crucial opponent of U$ Imperialism until Gorbachev), with the caveat that none of this truly matters any more as the USSR collapsed in 1991 and is sadly never coming back (despite the delusions of Dengists who believe that the Capitalist, Imperialist, and Fascist State of Dengist China is the new USSR, LOL), thus the reason I am a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist.
>>

 No.388781

>>388278
50 years and the Filipinos and Indians haven't joined lmfao, even after the huge farmer's strikes or Duterte
>>

 No.388894

File: 1626748476131.jpg ( 37.86 KB , 567x636 , lt-bugs-meh-no-bad.jpg )

>>369405
>and Gonzalo.
>hiding thread.
>saging thread.
>ignoring thread.
+1 post to sink this shit thread to the bottom.
>>

 No.389036

sage
>>

 No.389697

>>389412
cope
sage
>>

 No.389876

sage
>>

 No.390923

This thread really showcases the kind of sperg that attacks maoism at every opportunity on this site. It's hillarious how little self awareness they have.
>>

 No.390960

>>390923
100% it’s all crypto libs who can’t even get basic dates right
>>

 No.390970

>>390896
>ooooh it’s like Trotskyism
What according to some retarded Reddit copypasta. Reddit cope. Go home
>>

 No.390980

>>

 No.391157

>>390986
Hey, Palestanon back after some reading. I read both the lengthy struggle session critique of Sison, and the reply to that critique on Sison's blog. Now, to be quite frank, I am torn on the Gonzalo-Sison split. On the one hand, I agree with the pro-PCP argument that some of Sison's arguments are simplistic, such as that many countries have very restrictive gun laws and that keeping intentions secret is opportunistic. On the other hand, though, I can empathize with the core of Sison's argument. In cases where there is little potential for PPW, I can see where it would make sense to build up more institutional strength. I think this is most apparent when we look at some of the first-world MLM groups, who preach about people's war and go out acting revolutionary, only to see no broader growth or popular appeal beyond larping in the woods and playing revolutionary. I can see where it's important to build up your resources and popular base before taking such a drastic revolutionary step. So, if I were to take a side, although I do have quibbles with some aspects of Sison's argument, I think I have to side with him in that it may be better, depending on circumstances, to build power bases rather than immediately plunging into PPW. Of course, I'm sure that many pro-PCP MLMs will agree with at least this sentiment, and just simply consider the power-building as just the preliminary stage of the PPW. Perhaps, from that pov, a lot of this split is just a matter of theoretical misunderstanding and historical rivalry rather than some irresolvable theoretical contradiction. Still, let's put all that aside for now.

After considering the thread and what I've read, there is something I would like to discuss in good faith, as I think it is a major problem within Maoism that should be resolved. The sheer number of comparisons. just within this thread, between Maoism and Trotskyism/anarchism should be firmly resolved. There have been various left-oppositions that have formed against the Soviet Union since its founding: firstly from the left communists who rejected Lenin's leadership for his refusal to do things like instantly abolish commodity production and abstain from aiding "reactionary" anti-imperial struggles, then from the Trotskyists who rejected Stalin's leadership for his pragmatic refusal to embrace pipedreams of immediate global revolution when the Soviet Union was in such dire straits, and finally the Maoists who rejected Khrushchev's leadership for his revisionist policies of reaching detente with the West, liberalizing the Union, and other such reforms. Now, I won't try to draw a false equivalency between Maoism and the ultra-leftists of Trotskism and Left-communism. Obviously, Maoism (and broader anti-revisionism) actually saw successful revolutions in China, Albania, and Nepal, not to mention various major struggles still being waged. These accomplishments are far greater than anything Trotskyism and Left-communism could ever hope to accomplish, and this at least shows that Maoism isn't purely armchair. That being said, this still leaves a fundamental question to be considered. In each of these schisms, the opposition revolts against what it perceives as a rightward, opportunistic betrayal within the Soviet Union that abandons the true revolution. However, at least in the case of Lenin and Stalin, we know there was no evil clique of plotting revisionists salivating at the chance to destroy the revolution; these revisions were simply necessary changes for the sake of preserving the state against constant capitalist aggression. In the case of Maoism and its case against Khrushchev, I'd like to hear an answer to these two questions:
1. Was Khrushchev unique in being a closet reactionary plotter (as previous left oppositions had claimed of Lenin and Stalin), or was there genuinely a material basis for the USSR's 1956 shift in policy, as there had been a material basis for the policies of both Lenin and Stalin?
2. If the answer to the previous question is indeed that Khrushchev was indeed acting upon broader material forces rather than some personal malignancy, what are we to do to prevent such a thing from happening again? And I must be firm on this, don't just say things like "We will need an independent left made of TRUE revolutionaries who won't betray it this time", that's what leftcoms and Trots do and it has never, ever worked. I'd like to hear a real, scientific, material strategy for resolving the material basis of revision that doesn't rely on utopian conceptions of "Oh we'll just make our parties have the right theory and right revolutionary spirit, that way it won't happen again". Do we have to concentrate our revolution in regions that won't be culpable to social imperialism? Do we have to reconsider efforts at popular fronts and not allow liberal-communist alliances to manifest? I'd like to hear some material solution to this material cause of revisionism.
>>

 No.391791

File: 1626860411503.gif ( 450.41 KB , 220x220 , cope.gif )

>>391157
>china
>Marx was a marxist
>Lenin was a leninist
>Mao was a maoist
>>

 No.392876

(Crosspost)

maopill me about gonzalo, why he started attacking peasants and the people he should be protecting? that only caused poor people to hate him.

AFAIK even Pedro Castillo (Pencilman) was a rondero, a rondero was a type of self-defense force against shining path.
>>

 No.393837

>>392876
petit bourg college philosophy professor, the entire central committee were white PMCs or mestizos, spurring a petit-bourgeois movement
>>

 No.399863

>>390928
Read the shit you're posting. That's just the exact same shit right wingers constantly parrot when talking about communism in general but projected against maoism alone. Every "argument" against maoism in this thread is pretty much nothing but that. It's embarrassing.
>>

 No.400384

File: 1627208524102.png ( 334.79 KB , 1073x532 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>399863
Woah, it's almost like changing the subject that you're talking about changes the meaning of what you're saying.
>>

 No.400409

For all the dunking done on MLM (rightfully so, the results leave a lot to be desired, speaking as an anti-revisionist) it's done precisely because we WANT success. The 3rd world seems to be the best candidate for revolution, and for this one tendency to have achieved essentially nothing (except Nepal, where they had anti-monarchist/republican/pro-democratic movements backing and the conditions were the closest to 20s-50s China as they could be) is disappointing, methods should be switched up, stop fetishizing failure.
>>

 No.400417

File: 1627211085616.pdf ( 197.04 KB , 197x300 , The_Muck_of_the_Past_Revol….pdf )

Don't really know about Maoism that much (apart from the American style stuff which seems highly tinged with racial guilt politics)

But I've been reading Badiou this week and someone told me he was a maoist and then coincidentally was reading this pdf which is an anthropology of the Indian Maoists. Looks good, and I can see the appeal of Maoism as a living revolution of sorts.
>>

 No.401073

This thread in a nutshell:
>maoism is bad!!! why? because… it just is!!!
>maoism is a failure because its ongoing revolutions aren't as successfull as these long dead revolutions from last century!!!
>maoists are white!!! maoists are petit bourgeois!!! maoists are americans!!! maoists are this and that!!!
Do you not have any actual criticism of maoist theory or organization?
>>

 No.401259

>>401073
can't seem to get past the revolutionary stage
>>

 No.401270

>>

 No.401288

>>401270
thought so
>>401259
do you think theory and organization tactics the only factors that decide if a revolution in practice is successful or not?
>>

 No.401310

>>401259
>China
>>

 No.401344

>>401288
No
>>401310
>Marx was a marxist
>Lenin was a leninist
>Mao was a maoist
>>

 No.401347

File: 1627239545531.png ( 683.06 KB , 1080x1080 , 8g8o733j9ak61.png )

>>401344
Marx was a Stalinist
>>

 No.401361

>>401344
then how is merely stating they haven't gone past the revolutionary stage a valid criticism of maoist theory and organization?
>>

 No.402841

>>401361
Their real life actions are defined by their theory, and like that of anarchists, it amounts to very little throughout history (at least anarchists have Catalonia). If you think that crying about "b-b-but the reactionary state fought us" that's a retarded excuse because that will always happen, it is a given in any situation, so the fault lies squarely on the revolutionaries, who through their adhering to their shitty adventurist theory, end up alienating the population or just remain irrelevant for several decades.
>>

 No.402863

What is the differences in ideology between Mao-Zedong-Thought (What the CPC believes) Maoism (what gonzalo and others made up) and Maoist third worldism?
>>

 No.402875

>>402863
one justifies consoomerism, the other boiling babied and the other one staying all day in your parents basement
>>

 No.403250

>>402841
>why is maoism bad?
<because their revolution isn't succeeding
>why isn't their revolution succeeding?
<because maoism is bad
can't you explain your point further than that? what exactly are the aspects of the maoist theory and organization you think are stopping it from succeeding?
>so the fault lies squarely on the revolutionaries, who end up alienating the population or just remain irrelevant for several decades.
this applies to pretty much every modern socialist revolutionary org that doesn't already hold some sort pf political power
>>

 No.417770

Maoists are based and anti Maoists are cringe
>>

 No.420507

>>419838
>libs reeee about muh terrorism
Seems shit to me
>>

 No.438297

bump
>>

 No.440459

>>420507
>"no I don't care about what proles think of car-bombing ordinary uyghas"
>>

 No.440485

>>421025
Which is why we've seen multiple resoundingly successful "MLM" movements trying to graft this onto material conditions which are not the same as China. The only success thus far was Nepal, which is arguably the closest out of any of the other countries where there are "people's wars." 'Mass Line' is just not being followed, these movements are evidently ultra-left because they're been going on for around half a century and no one there gives a shit. The average Filipino or Indian's lives are not impacted at all by the PMC college kids terrorizing some farmers in the countryside and killing 1-2 cops every month. Did these Maoists lead the protests in India last year? What sort of revolution carries on for 2-3 times the lengths of all others both like and unlike it yet hasn't made any progress? Anti-Revisionism means nothing if you don't have a socialist state. The only revisionists here seem to be the retards making concessions to national bourgeois. The only thing they've succeeded in doing is being a rallying point for everyone but themselves in their home countries to get behind because they ride this fine line between being irrelevant (as in, not a threat to state power) and doing enough stupid shit like threatening to blow up train stations in Bum-fuck Nowhere, India to get the police on them, who effortlessly BTFO them because they have international support from foreign governments, have more soldiers, and have more of the public on their side.
>>

 No.441565


>Rudy and Annie join Mike Ely, a veteran of the Revolutionary Union and the wildcat strike movement in the West Virginia coalfields of the 1970s. Drawing from Ely's experiences as a communist in West Virginia, we discuss the practice of social investigation, the role of communists in strike struggles, the structural and conjectural views of revolution and the connection to Alain Badiou, and state repression of the radical left.


https://cosmopod.libsyn.com/communists-and-the-miners-upsurge-with-mike-ely


this was really awesome btw. I think I'm definitely leaning more towards Maoist strategy after listening to this.
>>

 No.453323

Maoism is so beautiful it makes me want to cry
>>

 No.454815

File: 1647527945049.png ( 602.64 KB , 1201x631 , download.png )

today i realized that mormons basically live in digital maoism

they will create only few types of production (dated, but still efficient)
like they will build and use these old carriages

and they have some planning too. but mostly involved in agriculture communities (kinda like kibbutz)

they're currently only white people in america with the offspring
>>

 No.454816

File: 1647528767949.jpeg ( 195.61 KB , 1024x683 , download.jpeg )

>>454815
not mormons i meant amishes, im not american

but mormons are somewhat similar in the sense that they're numbers are growing
>>

 No.454824

>>454816
Amish plan basically everything tbh
>>

 No.454851

Just look at Putin. He is the chairman of maoism.
>>

 No.454867

>>454824
>Amish plan basically everything tbh
Yes, but how will they do when climate change hits ? Do they live in a region that is at risk from drouts ?
>>

 No.454868

>>454867
> how will they do when climate change hits
they will ride on unicorns
>>

 No.454869

>>454867
Sure, yeah, that's a fair point. I mean I was just saying they do pretty much plan everything. I don't see why people feel like such actions have to be tied to a religion of some sort though for it to make sense.
>>

 No.454875

>>454869
>climate bollocks are a "fair point"
die faggot
>>

 No.455147

File: 1651043580104.webm ( 35.99 MB , 1920x1080 , Red Sun in the Sky (TRAP ….webm )

My first video, produced in Kdenlive.

For creative application of materialist dialectics to hopeless conditions!
For the mass line and people's war!
For the anti-rightist campaign and cultural revolution!
For the communes!
Proletarians of all countries, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
>>

 No.455148

>>454875
You will never be a great socialist leader.
You will never change a single persons mind
You WILL LIVE IN your echochamber
You WILL stay in your elitist cliques.
You will never build socialism.
>>

 No.461564

The PPW specifically refers to the military strategy for a semi-feudal country, with nowhere near the level of communications a modern imperialist state has. In our world(let's be honest maybe like one of you doesn't live in an imperialist country), where legions of cops or soldiers can go to any location in the country in a matter of hours(especially if you live in burgerland), what is the new military strategy of the proletariat then?

This is not to say to discredit all of MLM and its thought, simply the idea that "PPW is universal", which generalizes the term beyond all meaning.
>>

 No.461613

>>461564
It has been so long since PPW has had any success whatsoever, that I think that it can be safely consigned to military history.
>>

 No.469133

File: 1683504368076-0.pdf ( 1.73 MB , 232x300 , RedPages-01-Jan2021-rev3.pdf )

File: 1683504368076-1.pdf ( 1.13 MB , 232x300 , RedPages-02-Jan2022-r2.pdf )

File: 1683504368076-2.pdf ( 613.66 KB , 232x300 , RedPages-03-Feb2023-r2.pdf )

For the burger anons out there, what do you think about the thought expressed in Red Pages? I find their criticisms expressed about the application of PPW in imperialist nations pretty potent, but of course that could just be due to ignorance on my part.
>>

 No.469161

File: 1683609074024.jpg ( 1.05 MB , 2250x1218 , IMG_20230509_120853.jpg )

>>

 No.472971

The previous attempts of applying MLM to the first world including the work of the Black Panthers and Young Lords did lead to pressuring the bourgeois state into producing many social programs once the proletariat saw what was possible, but at the same time the direct action groups(the Young Lords in particular) were directly limited by the meddling of the local street gangs.

It is obvious that the drug-peddling gangs and the state police force are the two utmost forces to struggle against for the party; the mass base tactics applied in the Philippines come to mind as an interesting solution to their grasp over these neighborhoods, so much so that I'm certain someone else has tried it first. Is there any theory published around attempts to build a people's army by in first world conditions as of recent? Most armed groups that I'm aware of are usually anarchist explicitly or implicitly(such as Redneck Revolt), so I'm curious of a specifically Maoist solution.

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