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File: 1615617998461.jpg ( 446.62 KB , 1200x600 , starcraft 2.jpg )

 No.8129

Real time strategy games are not as popular as they once were, but I still think they deserve their own thread. Do you guys still play them and which games?
>>

 No.8130

I don't "still" play them but I never had the chance to play C&C and I wanna fix that.
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 No.8132

>>8130
>C&C
If you find its hard to get into, I would play Starcraft 2 to first then play C&C. Its very easy to understand and play, and the multiplayer and the first campaign are both free.
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 No.8133

Is Starcraft still South Korea's national sport?
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 No.8134

I think it has less to do with that they aren't made anymore and more to do with that they aren't good anymore.
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 No.8135

>>8133
I think LoL is bigger, though they still make up the majority of top Brood War and StarCraft II pros. Even though in the past couple of years the Europeans seem to slowly catching up. We had our first non-Korean to win Katowice just a few weeks ago.
>>8134
There kinda hard to make compared to other games and even other strategy games. They take a lot of effort went comes to designing units to make them unique and interesting. There also really hard to balance, which is important if you want your game to be played for esports, for example when StarCraft II came out its multiplayer was incredibly imba, partly due imbalance within the races and partly due to people not knowing what the best way is to play. I took years of Blizzard releasing balance patches and players figuring out the standard play to get StarCraft II to be highly balanced as it is. And even if the game is balanced there must be diversity in strategies to make the game-play fun, and this is especially with games with only one or two factions. And because of all this RTS’s are way less profitable than other genres such as shooters, action adventures, etc. The last big good RTS was StarCraft II which came out in 2010, god that makes me feel old.
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 No.8159

I am playing Total War Shogun 2 right now. Not technically real time strategy, it is more turn based strategy, but real time tactics. I think I like games like Total War better because of how it tries to simulate real battles. Starcraft's gameplay focuses on micro, build order, economy maintainance, unit composition, et cetera. It is more like Chess than it is wargaming. Singleplayer is very fun though and I love the universe.
>>

 No.8160

>>8159
I always expand too fast and get fucked over by realm divide (when I'm on higher difficulties anyway)

It's super fun using guns in that game though and ruthlessly punishing The Last Samurai reactionaries for their hubris.
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 No.8162

>>8160
The trick is to do it Hitler style and build up doomstacks right before you hit realm divide (1 province away) while maintaining friendly borders as much as possible. Once you've fought off the initial assault it's now a breeze even in legendary difficulty.

It's interesting to know that you gotta be the most ruthless dictator possiblecto achieve peace stability and unify Japan. Really makes you think that evil material conditions require evil actions for the sake of survival. Too bad there's no socialist route in these games and break away from the flawed feudal system.
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 No.8166

File: 1615694816924.png ( 80.08 KB , 670x164 , Starcraft system requireme….png )

I would still be playing Starcraft: Brood War if Blizzard hadn't fucked over its support on Wine and previous Windows operating systems. I really hope they burn in hell someday. Starcraft II can die in a fire.
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 No.8167

>>8166
>Starcraft II can die in a fire.
Whats wrong with StarCraft II?
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 No.8168

>>8167
It's one game deliberately split into three to nickel-and-dime fans, just for starters.
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 No.8169

>>8167
muh sarah
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 No.8170

>>8169
Yes we know video games have shit stories.
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 No.8172

>>8166
I don't know about linux, but you should still be able to play 1.16 on windows 7.
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 No.8174

>>8162
>Too bad there's no socialist route in these games and break away from the flawed feudal system.

I mean you can always play as Ikko Ikki
>>

 No.8175

>>8172
1.16 runs fine on Linux with wine last I checked, which was 4 years ago. The harder part is probably getting an install of 1.16.
>>

 No.8177

Whoops, messed up the link.

https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/895-starcraft-patches-archive/
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 No.8179

>>8169
Wings of liberty is a pretty decent story.
HotS and LotV suffer much from, going to place to get the thing to go to another place, ect. And they both have too many characteriteous. But there not bad enough that they don't warrant a play through. And the missions are pretty good. I would say even better than brood war and StarCraft I.
>>8170
StarCraft I and especially Brood War have some of the best stories in all of video gaming.
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 No.8180

>>8179
The voice acting is also good.
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 No.8181

>>8170
tbqh original starcraft and broodwar was better written than warhammer 40k. The way Zerg was depicted is how Lovecraftian horror should be approached in Vidya compared with autism lite that is Chaos or Tyranids.

>>8179
Campaign design was on point, I give you that but defending Wings of Liberty's story progression and setup is dishonest (especially after how writers stopped giving a fuck in sequels). Blizzard writers are hacks. They don't know how to progress world line without corruption of protagonists be it warcraft, overwatch, starcraft II, Diablo
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 No.8182

>>8166
StarCraft II multiplayer is way more fun to play and watch then Brood War.
>>8181
Yeah StarCraft II, suffered much from letting choose what missions to do in order, rather then being given mission based on handcrafting the story.
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 No.8183

>>8180
The voice acting in all of Blizzard's games are pretty good.
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 No.8186

>>8181
>better written than warhammer 40k
Whew what an accomplishment.
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 No.8199

>>8181
The only thing I don't like about Brood War is Kerrigan tbh. As a Zerg fan her story disappointed me so. Manipulative my ass, she was just an edgelord.

I think how Arthas handled the Undead Scourge in Warcraft 3 was a way better execution of what they were trying to do with Kerrigan, I feel. I do agree that the Zerg were so well done in Starcraft as a whole.
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 No.8200

>>8199
As an additional note, I was surprised how much I loved the UED campaign, considering Terrans are my least favorite race. It's such a shift, tonal wise. Terran campaign was a bunch of ragtag redneck rebels, the Zerg were a horde, the Protoss were a divided mess, and then you have the UED which are not only unified but extremely competent and ferocious in their execution. It was so engaging their fascist stability slowly crumble in the Koprulu section.
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 No.8201

>>8180
>>8183
https://youtu.be/AjZWjHigZuw?t=735

>Arrest me? Aiur burns at the touch of the Zerg.. and you travel all this way, to arrest me?
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 No.8204

Any good underground RTS? I heard some Russian ones are decent.
>>8132
Wait, C&C in general are way less micro intensive that Blizzard games. They’re way easier to get into but are also extremely “balanced” (fucking allied prism cheese).
>>8133
LoL basically killed it. That’s why modern blizzard is so intent in trying get into a mobile market and the MOBA genre. Now with all of their RTSs ending and their MOBA dead they only have Overshit now.
>>8181
>better written than 40k
A five year old can do that. At least GW being scummy as they are don’t have a concrete canon for their shit. Somehow the first game fucked up the scaling of a sci fi universe that put old Rogue Traders to shame.
Purification was and still is as much of a universe breaking idea as hyperdrive ramming in Star Wars. The Zerg was so shit fucking hillbillies hunt them for sports.
>>

 No.8206

>>8129
I still play SC2.

The problem is that RTS takes too much skill. (serious) to be a top player korean pros have like 300 APM so they're pressing like 10 buttons on their keyboard per second. They did studies that show by age 24/25 you have reached peak performance because after that your reflexes start getting old.
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 No.8207

>>8204
moba -> i liked heroes of the storm, was actually pretty fun. But it kindof came years too late. IF they had made it in like 2010 or something
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 No.8215

>>8199
What are talking about she was the best part of BW. Lieing a d cheating her way to fully take over the zerg. And here voice actress was really good, she sounded a pouty self amused type.
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 No.8228

File: 1615869525838.jpg ( 155.89 KB , 634x356 , thicc.jpg )

>>8207
early modellings were not ok
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 No.8229

>>8207
Blizz was legit retarded for not making Heroes of the Storm have all free heroes permanently.

No one is going to choose another moba besides LOL unless you offer a high incentive. DOTA makes all heroes free. Smite makes them all a one time purchase. Blizz could have done either but instead decided to gatekeep 95% of the game's content through a grindy as hell gold system because supposedly they would make more money that way, and then they shut down the game because it wasn't making enough.

There is such a thing as being educated to the point of stupidity - it's called a Master's of Business Administration. I 100% guarantee some dumbass """crunched the numbers""" to create that model and when it failed years later he wasn't even around to be punished for it, or worse, he was promoted.
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 No.8235

>>8228
>those tiny legs
Lmao. It’s only a matter of time that their cartoonish art style go full Chibi.
>>8229
To be fair, most their decision making has been in the hands of activision ever since the merger. I doubt they had any say in the monetization of their games.
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 No.8236

>>8228
>>8229
early HOTS had quite a few bugs and was stuck in technical alpha for years due to being based on the SC2 engine but being adopted
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 No.8238

>>8206
>The problem is that RTS takes too much button pressing
Maybe RTS games need a feature that let you record key macros, or user programmable behavior for units.
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 No.8239

>>8238
nah, RTS game that requires micro management of economy is doomed to be shallow in strategy. Human players cannot actively think in complex multidimensional strategy in battle while cat herding workers / buildings / unit production. Usually it's better investment to memorize build order template and execute it flawlessly as in, make sure units you end up with will out dps enemy units in next conflict with minimal intervention. positioning matters but timing is much more important with timely recon and you rarely see pro SC player deviating from the norm.

RTS games that revolves around area control like CoH or even DoW rewards players to actually think during battle and tech progression and it ends up resulting in much diverse combat scenarios.
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 No.8243

>>8238
We had that already at some level with Supreme Commander. Two resources, constant economic management, and building size mechs are used as ammunition level chaff infantry. God I love that game.
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 No.8246

>>8239
The best RTS is Wargame, it's just a shame that I fucking suck at it.
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 No.8248

>>8238
Linley Henzell (creator of Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup predecessor) has an unfinished game designed around this concept:
https://www.allegro.cc/depot/InvincibleCountermeasure
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 No.8254

File: 1616029852684.jpeg ( 98.25 KB , 1500x1000 , reynor-main.jpeg )

>>8206
>only 300 apm
>laughs with 600 apm
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 No.8255

>>8246
Warcraft III isn't a good rts because in reality the only hero units matter unlike that of starcraft which does not have hero units.
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 No.8265

>>8255
Wargame not Warcraft.
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 No.8266

>>8265
lol can't read, sorry.
>>

 No.8267

>>8239
TLDW
StarCraft, does have a lot of strategy like unit comps and build orders, but it empathizes the real time aspect more than the strategy one. Like how American football has a lot football has lots of strategy but if you way 90lbs you will die.
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 No.8268

>>8206
>by age 24/25 you have reached peak performance because after that your reflexes start getting old.
>tfw getting too old to git gud at RTS
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 No.8269

>>8268
Not true, older people cannot devote the time to practice because of other responsibilities. If your father gave you a small loan of $10 million to play games for 12 hours a day you could get good just as well as some 12 year old autist.
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 No.8270

>>8206
Both Flash and Byun both developed wrist problems from playing Starcraft so much, I think there might be more but I'm not sure.
https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/237041-flash-receives-mri-for-wrist-injury
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/566446-super-tournament-2-day-1-byuns-wrist-issues-come-up-again
>>8268
Depends on what you mean by good. If your talking pro level then I doubt you will ever reach that. But if dedicate enough time there's a good chance you will get at least to Diamond league and maybe even Masters in Starcraft II, I do not know what that translates to other games, and those guys have around 150 to 200 apm. A lot of apm comes from muscle memory.
>>8269
Pros usually practice for around 8 hours a day. Flash had an insane schedule, he had an own personal chef took cook meals for him.
>8 hours of sleep
>1 hour of free time
>The rest either was practicing, eating or using the bathroom
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 No.8271

>>8270
>wrist injury
Is there a way to play RTS games without developing wrist problems? Like, using a graphics tablet or such?
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 No.8272

>>8271
Play protoss.
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 No.8273

>>8272
As a protoss player, we are called the A move race
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 No.8274

>>8248
great tip
trailer looks good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLpyuTKCbbw
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 No.8276

>>8273
to this day I have not mastered the art of reaver
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 No.8324

File: 1616130162926-0.gif ( 1.5 MB , 448x480 , Reaver_Cartooned_Portrait1.gif )

File: 1616130162926-1.jpg ( 24.08 KB , 305x248 , face of terror.jpg )

>>8276
The face that strikes terror into the heart of any Terran.
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 No.8325

>>8270
Maru and Thorzain have wrist issues too.
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 No.8371

what do RTS players think of MOBAs?
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 No.8372

>>8371
Flickering lights to keep the children occupied that will forever be stuck in balance hell.
On a less acerbic note, I suspect Starcraft fans are less hostile.
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 No.8373

>>8371
>>8372
Starcraft fan here, couldn't care less about ASSFAGGOTS
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 No.8374

>>8371
Both are fun. As a real gamerfag, I found DotA through the custom games list on WC3.
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 No.8375

>>8371
>>8372
MOBA's are a joke. I have no idea on why anyone would want to play them.
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 No.8380

>>8375
MOBAs unironically take more skill than Starcraft. First off even in the video the SC person is clicking and camera cycling unnecesarily. Besides hitting hotkeys for production all of that is wasted effort since he's not even in a fight but just trying to look cool by pumping APM. It's literally equivalent to the league player pulling a camp. but disguised with a lot of extra noise. Secondly one of the mottos of SC is macro beats everything. What this means is that you can overcome tactical and strategic mistakes simply by outputting more units than your opponent consistently because units die so fast in-game that micro decisions don't matter as much outside a few exceptions. This essentially means that you have to think much less. SC is known for following build orders and general gameplans but the combination of items and heroes in say DOTA is 1000x more difficult to adapt to and fight against because unlike in SC where you know the enemy race and already know 80% of what he will do with his builds people in MOBAs can sit on secret team compositions and item strats that remain undiscovered for MONTHS because of all the possibilities.
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 No.8391

>>8373
>>8375
Real niggas 👍👍
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 No.8392

>>8380
Sucking dick unironically takes more skill than ASSFAGGOTS. First off even in the video the MOBA person is clicking and camera cycling unnecesarily. Besides hitting hotkeys for production all of that is wasted effort since he's not even in a fight but just trying to look cool by pumping APM. It's literally equivalent to the anal fingering. but disguised with a lot of extra noise. Secondly one of the mottos of ASSFAGGOTS is macro beats everything. What this means is that you can overcome tactical and strategic mistakes simply by outputting more units than your opponent consistently because units die so fast in-game that micro decisions don't matter as much outside a few exceptions. This essentially means that you have to think much less. ASSFAGGOTS are known for following build orders and general gameplans but the combination of suction and hand movements in say anilingus is 1000x more difficult to adapt to and succeed in because unlike in ASSFAGGOTS where you know the enemy race and already know 80% of what he will do with his builds people in sucking dick can sit on each others faces and gobble schlong that remain undiscovered for MONTHS because of all the possibilities.
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 No.8393

>>8380
To talk about which "requires more skill" is a false proposition to begin with. The skill required is the skill necessary to beat your opponent.
In Starcraft you have the (theoretical) potential to micro every single unit, keep track of every piece of information on the map, keep every production facility working at maximum capacity and so on and so on, which is practically impossible, so you cut corners where you can to maximize your limited human reaction time and attention.
In a moba you can get close to perfect execution in a fight, but the macro and meta decisions here must not be underestimated - there is near unlimited room for improvement and experimentation.
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 No.11501

File: 1628207744465.jpg ( 72.76 KB , 900x900 , external-content.duckduckg….jpg )

Literately the best SC2 content creator, change my mind.
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 No.11502

File: 1628217336479.png ( 1.38 MB , 1920x1080 , Mindustry.png )

>>8238
This is now a major feature in Mindustry. I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand it's pretty deep and neato, on the other it shifts skill during PvP matches into who's done the most pre-game homework to build or copy and paste the best unit behavior scripts, because there's no way you can program something complex in real time under pressure.
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 No.11504

>>8129
Why are Starcraft lore fags so insane? They basically infest every scifi forums with their fanfic and wanking even though the lore is even somehow worse than Warhammer filled with contrivances.

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